Tugger Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Outsource it all. Government employees need to be made aware how easy they've got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Petrol increases affect everybody and they don't cost you thousands in one fell swoop (unless you do a hell of a lot of miles).Like I said before, this allowance has feck all to do with covering petrol price increases so your point is irrelevant. Nope, I walk to work, so petrol increases don't affect me at all. Should my driving to work collegues get a rise in pay because petrol has gone up? From my observation, this looks like sour grapes. The staff have been clearly against the location of the new prison all along, and this is just another 'told you so' style tactic. Why have you gone off on an irrelevant point? The allowance has nothing to do with petrol increases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Outsource it all. Government employees need to be made aware how easy they've got it. I presume you're joking but in case you're not... They'd probably like that as they could apply for jobs at the outsourcing company - after all they have all the relevant training and experience - and end up taking home more pay. Obviously the outsourcing company would add on their cut too. That'd work for the taxpayers alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 There is the not inconsiderable matter of their final salary pensions, plus the fact that work permits could presumably be rolled into any outsourcing deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Why have you gone off on an irrelevant point? The allowance has nothing to do with petrol increases? It's not irrelevant, it's about an increase in the cost of getting to work and who's liable for that increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macmannin Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 These prison officers look after the most violent and dangerous people that are on our Island. They have worked in absolutely abysmal conditions for years, nobody cared about that! Now they are having to add on an extra one and a half hours to their working day in order to travel to work - the new jail should not even be in Jurby -it should have gone to Braddan - no travelling difference there -and no millions of pounds wasted by telling everyone that Braddan was the place it was going -then the spineless MHK'S bottled out in case they did not get voted back in - no one cares if it goes out the back of beyond -but it cost millions of pounds in consultancy and planning fees to have the Braddan site knocked out! Have the taxpayers any idea how much more of their money is going to be used ferrying prisoners backwards and forwards to court and hospital appointments and so on? How much more is going to be spent on legal aid so their lawyers can travel out to Jurby and back to see their clients? The New jail was supposed to open in November 2007 - why the hold up ? It is not down to staff - Home Affairs has had years and years to sort out staff pay and conditions - they haven't - and now they want it to look like it is the staffs fault that the new jail is not open -when it isn't -it is theirs! The jail was handed over far too early - there is a massive amount of work to be done on the fixtures and fittings before it can be used. The prison staff have had no training on how to work all this super duper equpment that is there - and all the electrical equipment does not work! I know someone who worked on the new jail -they said it would be pushing it to be finished properly this side of christmas! These people are the unsung heros of the services - they deserve every penny they earn and more - and they should get it. They are contracted to work at Douglas - not Jurby - they all have families who have jobs in Douglas - it isn't just the prison staff themselves who are affected by this - but their families too. : Tough shit. Welcome to the real world like everyone else. Ive been in jail a few years ago and the prison staff put the d.o..t staff to shame.Lazy fuckers they are.One screw I wa talking to was trying to get in the airport fire service for a more intresting job,says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 One screw I wa talking to was trying to get in the airport fire service for a more intresting job,says it all really. Was that more reading less wanking, or more wanking and less reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 How is he going to read with that eyesight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 These prison officers look after the most violent and dangerous people that are on our Island. They have worked in absolutely abysmal conditions for years, nobody cared about that! Now they are having to add on an extra one and a half hours to their working day in order to travel to work - the new jail should not even be in Jurby -it should have gone to Braddan - no travelling difference there -and no millions of pounds wasted by telling everyone that Braddan was the place it was going -then the spineless MHK'S bottled out in case they did not get voted back in - no one cares if it goes out the back of beyond -but it cost millions of pounds in consultancy and planning fees to have the Braddan site knocked out! Have the taxpayers any idea how much more of their money is going to be used ferrying prisoners backwards and forwards to court and hospital appointments and so on? How much more is going to be spent on legal aid so their lawyers can travel out to Jurby and back to see their clients? The New jail was supposed to open in November 2007 - why the hold up ? It is not down to staff - Home Affairs has had years and years to sort out staff pay and conditions - they haven't - and now they want it to look like it is the staffs fault that the new jail is not open -when it isn't -it is theirs! The jail was handed over far too early - there is a massive amount of work to be done on the fixtures and fittings before it can be used. The prison staff have had no training on how to work all this super duper equpment that is there - and all the electrical equipment does not work! I know someone who worked on the new jail -they said it would be pushing it to be finished properly this side of christmas! These people are the unsung heros of the services - they deserve every penny they earn and more - and they should get it. They are contracted to work at Douglas - not Jurby - they all have families who have jobs in Douglas - it isn't just the prison staff themselves who are affected by this - but their families too. : Tough shit. Welcome to the real world like everyone else. Ive been in jail a few years ago and the prison staff put the d.o..t staff to shame.Lazy fuckers they are.One screw I wa talking to was trying to get in the airport fire service for a more intresting job,says it all really. Give over, you could never tell that you were an ex con I presume that you never came back into prison again and learned your lesson. (see, prison does work after all) If not: Tough shit. Welcome to the real world like everyone else. One screw I wa talking to was trying to get in the airport fire service for a more intresting job,says it all really. Was that more reading less wanking, or more wanking and less reading? Only you can tell, only you can tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Why have you gone off on an irrelevant point? The allowance has nothing to do with petrol increases? It's not irrelevant, it's about an increase in the cost of getting to work and who's liable for that increase. Now I know why everyone gets frustrated arguing with you! If you can't see the difference between forcing an extra couple of hundred miles a week onto your staff and petrol prices going up due to external factors then there's nothing more I can do to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 If you can't see the difference between forcing an extra couple of hundred miles a week onto your staff and petrol prices going up due to external factors then there's nothing more I can do to explain it. Douglas to Jurby is about 16 miles. Its not like driving from John O'Groats to Landsend. If you have a reasonable modern car at 45 mpg thats nearly 3 journeys for £5 or at 40p a mile its £18 for every £5 spent on fuel. Were all paying extra for petrol and for my part I don't expect my employer to pay for me to drive to work - particularly if I have a guaranteed final salary pension, guaranteed cost of living pay increase, brilliant holiday entitlements, overtime and all the other stuff people in the real world drool about. As I said originally. Tough shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 If you can't see the difference between forcing an extra couple of hundred miles a week onto your staff and petrol prices going up due to external factors then there's nothing more I can do to explain it. Douglas to Jurby is about 16 miles. Its not like driving from John O'Groats to Landsend. If you have a reasonable modern car at 45 mpg thats nearly 3 journeys for £5 or at 40p a mile its £18 for every £5 spent on fuel. Were all paying extra for petrol and for my part I don't expect my employer to pay for me to drive to work - particularly if I have a guaranteed final salary pension, guaranteed cost of living pay increase, brilliant holiday entitlements, overtime and all the other stuff people in the real world drool about. As I said originally. Tough shit. Yet another one who misses the point completely. Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 If you can't see the difference between forcing an extra couple of hundred miles a week onto your staff and petrol prices going up due to external factors then there's nothing more I can do to explain it. Douglas to Jurby is about 16 miles. Its not like driving from John O'Groats to Landsend. If you have a reasonable modern car at 45 mpg thats nearly 3 journeys for £5 or at 40p a mile its £18 for every £5 spent on fuel. Were all paying extra for petrol and for my part I don't expect my employer to pay for me to drive to work - particularly if I have a guaranteed final salary pension, guaranteed cost of living pay increase, brilliant holiday entitlements, overtime and all the other stuff people in the real world drool about. Yet another one who misses the point completely. Congratulations! No the point is that they are already getting 40p a mile in mileage claims so its not costing them anything is it? If your getting 45mpg your actually getting £18 everytime you use £5 of fuel. You've got some wear and tear on top but you have to run a car anyway. Douglas to Jurby is 16 miles so thats a 32 mile round trip - five days a week that is only 160 miles. At 40p a mile that is £64 you can claim every week for putting only 3.5 gallons at £5 each into your car. Thats a profit of £40 each a week isn't it? What they are trying to do is make more profit by getting the cost per mile increased - but thats ok because its only taxpayers money - funded by the majority of people who pay tax AND pay to put petrol in their own cars so they can drive to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_pele_ Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 If you can't see the difference between forcing an extra couple of hundred miles a week onto your staff and petrol prices going up due to external factors then there's nothing more I can do to explain it. Douglas to Jurby is about 16 miles. Its not like driving from John O'Groats to Landsend. If you have a reasonable modern car at 45 mpg thats nearly 3 journeys for £5 or at 40p a mile its £18 for every £5 spent on fuel. Were all paying extra for petrol and for my part I don't expect my employer to pay for me to drive to work - particularly if I have a guaranteed final salary pension, guaranteed cost of living pay increase, brilliant holiday entitlements, overtime and all the other stuff people in the real world drool about. Yet another one who misses the point completely. Congratulations! No the point is that they are already getting 40p a mile in mileage claims so its not costing them anything is it? If your getting 45mpg your actually getting £18 everytime you use £5 of fuel. You've got some wear and tear on top but you have to run a car anyway. Douglas to Jurby is 16 miles so thats a 32 mile round trip - five days a week that is only 160 miles. At 40p a mile that is £64 you can claim every week for putting only 3.5 gallons at £5 each into your car. Thats a profit of £40 each a week isn't it? What they are trying to do is make more profit by getting the cost per mile increased - but thats ok because its only taxpayers money - funded by the majority of people who pay tax AND pay to put petrol in their own cars so they can drive to work. Sorry 'thesultanofsheight' You need to include Tax, insurance and the price of a car into your equation. It's only fair as this is a forced move and as stated in 'the warder's post, (2) as per forum member TerryMcCann stated ‘when they took jobs at the prison they knew they would have to travel to Douglas and that was accepted as a normal part of their daily commute and no extra should be paid for travel costs’ ‘The move to Jurby is a forced relocation. They have no choice but to accept it (other than quitting) and many will incur an extra cost for travel’ As per forum member Miss Take ‘No-one, including the prison workers, expects to get travel money when they initially take a job. You accept a job offer knowing how far you have to travel and whether the salary is worth it. If you're then forced to travel to a relocated office and incur extra costs then the situation has changed. It isn't paying people more to do the same job - it's covering them for the increase in costs they incur by agreeing to stay on in that job after a relocation’ As per forum member Pale Rider ‘I have been in this situation in the UK about 2 years ago. My company merged with another and relocated about 25 miles away from our old office. This meant staff had no choice but to move which increased our travelling costs and time. Had the job originally been in the new location I would never have applied because of the distance from home and fuel costs. Unfortunately the company had a get out clause. Because it was a merger, and not just a relocation they refused to pay. None of the staff who were forced to move work there now! About 10 years ago I was in a similar situation at a different company. This was a straightforward office relocation 13 miles away, we got a slight wage increase to cover extra fuel costs without even having to ask. As far as I know in the UK, a company has to offer staff some financial incentive if they relocate over a certain distance. I would assume rules will be similar on the island’. Also, (1) Staff who were employed after the official opening date was announced will not receive payment (2) Staff who reside closer to the new prison than the old will not receive payment (3) Payment will be on a sliding scale; dependant on how close that person lives (worked out by Government Admin) This is the most direct route which in this case is The old Prison, Ramsey mountain road, through Tholt-y-Will and to Jurby. No additional payment will be made if the mountain road is closed (bad weather, TT etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Sorry 'thesultanofsheight' You need to include Tax, insurance and the price of a car into your equation. It's only fair as this is a forced move and as stated in 'the warder's post You need to include the price of a car? My arse you do. You own a car anyway. Everyone owns a car you use them for lots of things. Going to work is only one of them. Your telling me that nobody owns a car and now they're going to have to go out and buy one? Pure bollocks I'm afraid. (Anyway haven't they given those that need it grants to buy cars?) Sorry they're not shouting about that one are they? (2) as per forum member TerryMcCann stated ‘when they took jobs at the prison they knew they would have to travel to Douglas and that was accepted as a normal part of their daily commute and no extra should be paid for travel costs’ ‘The move to Jurby is a forced relocation. They have no choice but to accept it (other than quitting) and many will incur an extra cost for travel’ Yes. Like people in the private sector whose jobs move. You either move with the job or go on the dole. Its a simple equation. They have other benefits nobody else has - like final salary pensions and a fantastic sickness pay - a few extra miles is nothing. Its not John O'Groats to Lands End - its 16 miles. As per forum member Miss Take ‘No-one, including the prison workers, expects to get travel money when they initially take a job. You accept a job offer knowing how far you have to travel and whether the salary is worth it. If you're then forced to travel to a relocated office and incur extra costs then the situation has changed. Your employed on certain terms and conditions location, unless specified explicitly in your contract, is not one of them. It isn't paying people more to do the same job - Yes it is. At 40p a mile, as I said, they are more than covering the increase in costs they incur petrol as is just over £5 a gallon. At 40p a mile your making significantly more than that. (1) Staff who were employed after the official opening date was announced will not receive payment Yes thats fair because they knew about the move. How can that be in any way unfair? (2) Staff who reside closer to the new prison than the old will not receive payment Well why the hell should they. They are not that inconvienced are they? (3) Payment will be on a sliding scale; dependant on how close that person lives (worked out by Government Admin) This is the most direct route which in this case is The old Prison, Ramsey mountain road, through Tholt-y-Will and to Jurby. No additional payment will be made if the mountain road is closed (bad weather, TT etc) Jesus you want more money if the Mountain Road is closed as well. Maybe you'd like to live in the real world with all of us who put petrol in our own cars ourselves and them drive them to work. Because we have mortgage and therefore we have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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