Max Power Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Just paid this annual charge of £280 for having Radio 2 on in the background for customers and staff to listen to. It always ruffles me up how they demand this money for something that is in the public domain and their attitude and the threats of legal action if not paid in just a couple of weeks! I'm not arguing that musicians need paying somehow, just the manner in which it's collected from soft targets. Can they legally claim this money from the Islands businesses? And what about the Irish Republic, are they exempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I had to arrange a PRS licence for someone a few years ago - and this is how it was explained to me: Copyright acts exist on the island, and you are required to have a licence if the public or even your own staff can hear it (radio, DVD, TV etc. included). Licences just happen to be issued by the PRS and they will take you to court on the island, where you will be deemed as having committed an offence under existing Manx law by broadcasting to the public or your staff without a licence at your place of business. It's a bit unfair to charge so much I think - and especially a rip off for small businesses. Even though the PRS is a non-profit membership organisation, I'd also like to know if these people working for them have work permits if they're coming from across. It's just a YAT (Yet Another Tax) IMO. Someone has to pay for the sh1t on radio 1 these days - because I know I'm not buying it, nor even listening to it either. They're starting to come down harder, and like the TV licencing gangsters and their 'database', they simply start from the presumption that everyone is a lying, cheating, downloading, robbing bastard. Copyright licence acts also exist in Ireland, which has a similar organisation called IMRO - which follows the same line as the PRS. _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minxie Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Would this also apply to offices that have the radio on for their staff, even if they don't have customers coming in? I am sure there are plenty of offices (and garages, workshops etc) that have the radio in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 It's ridiculous. If a CD or MP3 is being played then someone's already paid for it, if the radio's playing then they have paid their licence. Robbing so and sos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 We've just had to pay for a PPL license for our music on hold for the phones. We get away with not paying PRS as well because we only play music by long dead composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejay Denzel Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 The PRS people on the Island are residents working on behalf of them. If you thing a license for a shop is expensive.... try one for a possible audience of 80 odd thousand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Could the same charge be extended to those knobs who play their car radios/CDs so loudly that practically half the planet can hear their 'music'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 , and like the TV licencing gangsters and their 'database', they simply start from the presumption that everyone is a lying, cheating, downloading, robbing bastard. Ah that explains wht the UK taxpayer has to fund London MP's TV licences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThieBane Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Yes, PRS do appear to have jurisdiction in the IOM - although as far as I'm aware, no-one's tested it. Anyone fancy having a go? I do remember years ago when my mum owned a pub here, we were threatened by the PRS unless we got a license. Also, as has been pointed out, they are robbing swines. You pay for your CD/MP3 and then you have to pay again to play it on your PA system. Also - the radio stations pay the PRS people to broadcast the music, but then if you want to play the radio in your shop - you have to pay AGAIN! Outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 Would this also apply to offices that have the radio on for their staff, even if they don't have customers coming in? I am sure there are plenty of offices (and garages, workshops etc) that have the radio in the background. Yes, there is a charge for playing to the public based on the size of premises and a separate charge for the number of employees who may listen! I remember a garage owner who turned off the radio in his showromm and banned radios being played in his workshop to avoid paying this charge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Max I suspect you may be wrong It all depends on what is a public place If the public have acccess, ie a bar or restaurant shop or disco or a hotel, even a hotel bedroom, you must declare and pay. There are different rates based on type of premises, size, number of seats etc. An office may not be open to the public and would be hard for the inspectors to prove as they have no power of access to closed premises. The answer to your question is that yes Phonographic Performance, who represent the people whose recording is actually played collect royalties for the band/session musicians, orchestra etc and Performing Rights collect on behalf of the authors who composed the msusic and wrote the lyrics. It is not unfair because copyright law clearly allows for different types of licensing, there are also many different rights, including visual as well as sound. You want their music, you pay for it. Simple answer, you don't play it, you don't need to pay. Any tape, video or DVD or computer file downloaded is licesnsed for private use only, not for public use. To hear in your own home or office you pay no more. If you want to make your commercial premises more attractive by playing it to your visitors, the public, then an additional fee is payable for each of the singer/player and the composer/writer (may or may not be same person) A fee is also paid by radio and TV to broadcast the copyright material, but again only to be heard in private, so if you have a TV or radio in a bar then you pay to cover the music heard by the public who come in and drink. If its a DVD or film or TV you may need another license to cover the actors etc The alternative would be to charge another £10.00 per CD and £20 per DVD and alow free broadcast or public play to even out matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 What I want to know is how do they know what music you listen to to enable them to pay the appropriate composer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 John They definately make a charge on a sliding scale based on the number of workshop employees, despite the fact that the general public are not permitted to enter the premises? Sparky, I think they reimburse based on the play lists supplied by radio stations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Max depends on whether the public are admitted. If they are and an inspector turns up he will note his observations, otyerwise its what you declare. I was dealing with an office, in my example. Thye have full play lists for all radio stations inc IOM and for TV They operate in ireland also They have receiprocal enforcement rights world wide with other copyright organisations all over Europe nad the US etc. it isn't just us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Rider Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Would this also apply to offices that have the radio on for their staff, even if they don't have customers coming in? I am sure there are plenty of offices (and garages, workshops etc) that have the radio in the background. Apparently it does apply. I worked for a company where we had no visiting customers and our head office got a letter about this saying they should be paying up for any office with a radio on. (Obviously hedging their bets, how could they prove it, unless they walked into our office!) A memo was sent to our office (which only had about 10 staff). The boss wanted to turn the radio off because of it, even though the outside world and head office didn't even know we had a radio! We never heard any more about it, the radio stayed and we could get back to arguing what radio station to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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