[BBC News] Teenager dies in wall collision

[Theodolite]

In the main, there is no such thing as a dangerous road on the Isle of Man . There is no such thing as a dangerous corner either.

 

This is a dangerous road:

 

Accidents happen here, such as trees falling onto the road, wagons may spill diesel etc. but the road itself is not dangerous, it doesn't rear up and bite you or anything.

 

I don't understand this DoT obsession for straightening out corners. Where does it all stop?

[keyboarder]

I don't understand this DoT obsession for straightening out corners. Where does it all stop?

 

It will stop when the TT stops and therefore the pathetic obsession with having to be the fastest and most dangerous motor racing circuit in the world. It's just a matter of time. In the meantime one can only conclude that the number of (often teenage) premature deaths on our roads is, although very tragic, acceptable to those who make the decisions. There is clearly no political will to make a REAL difference. Here's a list of policies that certainly would:

 

All island speed limit. 50 mph is perfect, any faster than that is unnecessary on such a small island.

 

Speed cameras everywhere, both fixed and mobile.

 

A large and visible police presence on the roads at all times.

 

VERY SEVERE penalties on a sliding scale for transgressors.

 

I believe that these moves would have a far greater positive impact on road safety than getting kids to watch a load of old blokes driving cars badly at Jurby. Unfortunately, I can't see the adoption of any of these policies in the near future. So we better just rely on desperately hoping it's always somebody else's teenager.

[Cambon]

I don't understand this DoT obsession for straightening out corners. Where does it all stop?

 

It will stop when the TT stops and therefore the pathetic obsession with having to be the fastest and most dangerous motor racing circuit in the world. It's just a matter of time. In the meantime one can only conclude that the number of (often teenage) premature deaths on our roads is, although very tragic, acceptable to those who make the decisions. There is clearly no political will to make a REAL difference. Here's a list of policies that certainly would:

 

All island speed limit. 50 mph is perfect, any faster than that is unnecessary on such a small island.

 

Speed cameras everywhere, both fixed and mobile.

 

A large and visible police presence on the roads at all times.

 

VERY SEVERE penalties on a sliding scale for transgressors.

 

I believe that these moves would have a far greater positive impact on road safety than getting kids to watch a load of old blokes driving cars badly at Jurby. Unfortunately, I can't see the adoption of any of these policies in the near future. So we better just rely on desperately hoping it's always somebody else's teenager.

 

 

The deluded troll, Keyboarder, strikes again. All Island 50mph speed limit - latest fatality takes place in a 40mph zone. Speed cameras everywhere - what a beautiful sight they make. Did you know the BBC have had to recently can a program trying to promote the benefits of speed cameras because the footage shows people crashing and causing accidents whilst tring to slow to the respective limit before zooming off after passing the camera? A large, visible police presence at all times - How are they going to do that when they can barely recruit enough police to maintain the current numbers? VERY SEVERE penelties - you have to catch the people first.

 

No, the quick answer it to raise the driving age to 18.

[keyboarder]

No, the quick answer it to raise the driving age to 18.

 

 

Lol,lol............. and you call ME deluded........ ; )))

[3v0]

No, the quick answer it to raise the driving age to 18.

 

 

Lol,lol............. and you call ME deluded........ ; )))

 

Lol,lol.............I don't think it's just deluded people call you ; )))

[Cambon]

No, the quick answer it to raise the driving age to 18.

 

 

Lol,lol............. and you call ME deluded........ ; )))

 

Absolutely.

 

They are already raising it to 17, so why not go the whole hog?

 

Besides, why is raising the driving age deluded? Apart from anything else, it gets a large number of drivers off the road which eases congestion and lowers emmissions.

 

They are already talking about raising the age at which you can buy alcohol to 21, so why not raise the driving age to 18?

[keyboarder]

Oh I agree with raising the age - I'm just not convinced it's the miracle easy cure to unnecessary highway carnage that you paint it as.

[Amadeus]

All island speed limit. 50 mph is perfect, any faster than that is unnecessary on such a small island.

As said above, this incident happened in a 40mph zone. Just as further example, my previous neighbour wrote of three cars in his time next door - all parked up for the night and someone crashed into them. Also plenty of bricks missing in the nunnery wall by now - all this area is a 30 zone. A few signs at the side of the road won't magically make roads safer - never have, never will.

 

Speed cameras everywhere, both fixed and mobile.

Speed cameras in general have by now been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to have a negative effect on traffic. From the so-called yoyo effect (brake, pass camera, accelerate, brake, etc...) to people actually looking more on their speedo than on the road when they see a camera in the distance, these things are a nice way to make money but that's it.

 

As to mobile cameras - there are already unmarked and marked camera cars around - here's one:

 

 

another one:

 

 

 

and these thingies are also in use:

 

 

 

A large and visible police presence on the roads at all times.

You'll have to address that on a political level. The police only have so much manpower and can't pull more officers and cars out of a magic hat.

 

VERY SEVERE penalties on a sliding scale for transgressors.

Penalties that are appropriate for the circumstances, yes. Drastic penalties for drink driving as well, pref. following the Scandinavian model with penalties coupled to the offender's income.

 

I believe that these moves would have a far greater positive impact on road safety than getting kids to watch a load of old blokes driving cars badly at Jurby. Unfortunately, I can't see the adoption of any of these policies in the near future. So we better just rely on desperately hoping it's always somebody else's teenager.

So you don't think learning to really control a vehicle would be of any use, no? Let's just let them all bumble along and hope some signs and cameras sort it - great stuff...

 

Your a ghoul for taking them pictures.Bet your gutted you didnt get the car in situ shots.

I said I was considering if I should post it or not, but in the end it's a public road many of us will pass every day and there was no graphic content as such. I would not have posted them with the car still in place had the opportunity been there, although it is quite common practice in mainstream news to do that, including the local ones.

 

I think, however, that there is a chance of seing the car at some point in the future, on display at various events by the road safety unit as has been done before.

 

 

You may also find that ghoulish or inappropriate, but nothing sends the message home like looking at a mass of twisted metal - it makes all the slogans real.

[Theodolite]

Heh, heh, nice to see Amadeus' usually stringent self imposed policy of blanking out number plates in his photos doesn't extend to unmarked police cars

 

 

...blah...blah

 

All island speed limit. 50 mph is perfect, any faster than that is unnecessary on such a small island.

 

Speed cameras everywhere, both fixed and mobile.

 

A large and visible police presence on the roads at all times.

 

VERY SEVERE penalties on a sliding scale for transgressors.

 

...blah...blah

 

The best thing about these suggestions is that they arise from the resident forum idiot.

[Amadeus]

Heh, heh, nice to see Amadeus' usually stringent self imposed policy of blanking out number plates in his photos doesn't extend to unmarked police cars

 

The car was on openly on display - I even asked Derek Flint at the time what about people noting down the number. His response was that they want people to know these cars are around and despite the fact that it's open and public, people still get pulled over by it for driving like loons in front of it. From the point of the police, they could hardly be more open and fair about it.

[Albert Tatlock]

They are already talking about raising the age at which you can buy alcohol to 21, so why not raise the driving age to 18?

I don't think a year or two in taking the test will actually make that much difference. Driving like an arsehole when you are young is all about: just passing your test; freedom whizzing around with your mates in your first car; thinking you are indestructible; foolishly thinking cars will protect you in the event of an accident; immaturity; inexperience and over-confidence on dodgy and bumpy roads; thinking you can get away with driving and having even one pint; and just generally showing off IMO - whether you are 18 or 21. Many of us had the same attitude when we were young. I've even seen the same attitudes in 40-somethings going back to, or even getting their first, motorbikes.

 

Tighter restrictions and penalties for 'R' drivers is part of the answer IMO e.g. automatically lose licence and have to retake test if caught going over 50mph once, or get caught doing two (even minor) road infringements in the first year of driving - plus compulsory attendance at a few 'new driver' educational events in the first year of driving wouldn't hurt either (attend an inquest, cops explaining the consequences of recent accidents etc.) i.e. hefty policing of 'R platers' whilst they learn the reality and gain experience of driving on the island, and get rid of the attitude of 'just leave them to it' in their first year.

 

I got the dreaded phone call in recent months when my 18 year old was passenger in a car that went off the road, driven by another 18 year old. Luckily he only ended up with a sore neck and back. You can tell kids till you are blue in the face - but just like in many other things in life, most teenagers choose to ignore their parents and 'learn' by their own mistakes. It's been the same for generations. How you go about changing their attitude is the answer, though the reality is there may be ways to reduce such accidents, but you'll never eliminate them completely.

[keyboarder]

All island speed limit. 50 mph is perfect, any faster than that is unnecessary on such a small island.

As said above, this incident happened in a 40mph zone.

I'm not specifically referring to this case, the cause of which remains to be seen.

 

Just as further example, my previous neighbour wrote of three cars in his time next door - all parked up for the night and someone crashed into them. Also plenty of bricks missing in the nunnery wall by now - all this area is a 30 zone. A few signs at the side of the road won't magically make roads safer - never have, never will.

And irrelevant anecdotes won't magically make my suggestions nonsensical.

 

Speed cameras everywhere, both fixed and mobile.

Speed cameras in general have by now been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to have a negative effect on traffic. From the so-called yoyo effect (brake, pass camera, accelerate, brake, etc...) to people actually looking more on their speedo than on the road when they see a camera in the distance, these things are a nice way to make money but that's it.

I'm not convinced by this. And I actually think the installation of such equipment would be different on the island than the mainland where presumably such studies were carried out. People know the roads pretty intimately on the island so wouldn't be caught out so much by late observation of the cameras leading to panic braking. If enough cameras were installed, it would be quite easy to reduce the general speed of traffic.

 

As to mobile cameras - there are already unmarked and marked camera cars around

Good, the more the merrier, although all the petrol heads seem to take great pride in being able to identify them. Are they resulting in many arrests?

 

A large and visible police presence on the roads at all times.

You'll have to address that on a political level. The police only have so much manpower and can't pull more officers and cars out of a magic hat.

That's my main point. The political will isn't there, I believe because it is considered detrimental to the required image.

 

VERY SEVERE penalties on a sliding scale for transgressors.

Penalties that are appropriate for the circumstances, yes. Drastic penalties for drink driving as well, pref. following the Scandinavian model with penalties coupled to the offender's income.

That's almost another concurrence. ; )))

 

I believe that these moves would have a far greater positive impact on road safety than getting kids to watch a load of old blokes driving cars badly at Jurby. Unfortunately, I can't see the adoption of any of these policies in the near future. So we better just rely on desperately hoping it's always somebody else's teenager.

So you don't think learning to really control a vehicle would be of any use, no? Let's just let them all bumble along and hope some signs and cameras sort it - great stuff...

It may be of some use, yes.

 

 

The best thing about these suggestions is that they arise from the resident forum idiot.

 

Oooh, savaged by a (non, lol)working class hero. Haven't you got some flash cars to go and be intimidated by? ; )

[keyboarder]

Tighter restrictions and penalties for 'R' drivers is part of the answer IMO e.g. automatically lose licence and have to retake test if caught going over 50mph once, or get caught doing two (even minor) road infringements in the first year of driving - plus compulsory attendance at a few 'new driver' educational events in the first year of driving wouldn't hurt either (attend an inquest, cops explaining the consequences of recent accidents etc.) i.e. hefty policing of 'R platers' whilst they learn the reality and gain experience of driving on the island, and get rid of the attitude of 'just leave them to it' in their first year.

 

Good ideas these, but shouldn't just apply to R plate drivers.

[ai_Droid]

I agree with Keyboarder, he's talking a lot of sense.

 

As said above, this incident happened in a 40mph zone. Just as further example, my previous neighbour wrote of three cars in his time next door - all parked up for the night and someone crashed into them. Also plenty of bricks missing in the nunnery wall by now - all this area is a 30 zone. A few signs at the side of the road won't magically make roads safer - never have, never will.

 

This incident happened in a 40mph that joins on to an unrestricted section of a race course. There's been other fatal accidents in teh same spot, and in other unrestricted spots. What was the last fatal accident in a 30mph zone away from an unrestricted area of road?

 

Google Fatal Accident Isle of Man, then google it for Bermuda which has 35mph speed limit. Try Geurnsey, 25-35 limit, I found one fatal accident. Try Jersey 35mph limit, BVI, 40mph, can't find any fatal car accidents.

 

We're pretty much the only small island state that has no national speed limit, and we also have a shitload of fatal car accidents. How you can't join the dots up is beyond me. Expecting people to race over the mountain then slow to 40 is a lot different from expecting people to always drive 40. The latter is far more likely to happen.

 

Scraped cars and bricks missing aren't really relevant, unless it was fatal.

 

Speed ameras in general have by now been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to have a negative effect on traffic. From the so-called yoyo effect (brake, pass camera, accelerate, brake, etc...) to people actually looking more on their speedo than on the road when they see a camera in the distance, these things are a nice way to make money but that's it.

 

Source? And SAYNOESTOSPEEDLIMITZ.COM doesn't count. How about these long term studies which seem to prove otherwise?

 

So you don't think learning to really control a vehicle would be of any use, no? Let's just let them all bumble along and hope some signs and cameras sort it - great stuff...

 

I'd far prefer people to not have a vehicle going at fatal speeds compared to someone learning how to control one at fatal speeds when things go bad, yes. Particularly if I'm in a car driving in the opposite direction.

[Cambon]

If enough cameras were installed, it would be quite easy to reduce the general speed of traffic.

 

The general speed of traffic over here is already slow. According to the computer in my car that has not been reset in about 12,000 miles, my average speed has been 27.1 MPH. In that time I have been over 100mph a couple of times and most of the driving has been out of town, not crawling through rush hour traffic.

 

The majority of the people who are caught by speed cameras are innocent, safe drivers who were caught napping, not mad tearaways. They rarely get caught because they know exactly where to speed and when.