[BBC News] Teenager dies in wall collision

[Slim]

what has the TT got to do with someone crashing in a 40 limit?? and they even had the benefit of the bales put out FOR the TT!! if people don't obey the speed limits that exist what good are even more??

 

As above, it's a 40mph limit at the end of an unrestricted section of the TT course. It is my belief that a national speed limit would mean people would drive slower overall, particularly in combination of enforcement measures like Keyboarder and Albert suggest.

 

We'll wait for the facts of this tragic case before we can discuss it specifically, but other similar accidents have been about people blasting down those straights from the Creg and not slowing enough in the 40mph. I've done it myself, it feels very slow after the unrestricted miles.

[Frances]

two or three years ago when I commented on the pernicious influence of the TT on road accidents I was immedieately reminded of the morning boat, this year I have seen many who are willing to enter the line of fire and suggest the same - I suspect in this incident, as in many others, that if simple measure such as surface modulation (ie a series of small road bumps) had been used it would have been quite difficult to take this bend at too high a speed.

[keyboarder]

It is my belief that a national speed limit would mean people would drive slower overall, particularly in combination of enforcement measures

 

There's the crux - there's a world of difference between a speed limit and an enforced speed limit regardless of what opponents of a national limit would like us all to believe.

[WTF]

two or three years ago when I commented on the pernicious influence of the TT on road accidents I was immedieately reminded of the morning boat, this year I have seen many who are willing to enter the line of fire and suggest the same - I suspect in this incident, as in many others, that if simple measure such as surface modulation (ie a series of small road bumps) had been used it would have been quite difficult to take this bend at too high a speed.

 

i don't think the surface flatness really matters, it is drivers not driving in a suitable manner that is the issue, it wouldn't matter if it was a dirt track, some dick would go beyond the limits of the road surface, the car or themselves or a combination of all three.

[rednik]

two or three years ago when I commented on the pernicious influence of the TT on road accidents I was immedieately reminded of the morning boat, this year I have seen many who are willing to enter the line of fire and suggest the same - I suspect in this incident, as in many others, that if simple measure such as surface modulation (ie a series of small road bumps) had been used it would have been quite difficult to take this bend at too high a speed.

 

i don't think the surface flatness really matters, it is drivers not driving in a suitable manner that is the issue, it wouldn't matter if it was a dirt track, some dick would go beyond the limits of the road surface, the car or themselves or a combination of all three.

 

 

So as someone already said, use speed cameras where required. I hate the idea of a national speed limit and enjoy driving quickly where the conditions permit, but why not put a camera on corners like this where a limit is justified? It won't make money because people will know it's there and not break the limit. On the plus side they won't crash into walls and kill people. I'd have put a 50 limit and a camera on the old windy corner and Brandish as well rather than spend all that cash on " re modellling"

[manxblue]

Another thing is the driving age and this whole L-plate thing. You should be able to start learning for your licence with 17 or 17 1/2 but only get it with 18 and not a day earlier. Tuition should only be carried out by proper instructors and not uncle bob on the passenger seat, who drives like a monkey on speed himself.

 

Does it matter who teaches you to drive ?. Take your test and if your competent you will pass, if your not, you will fail regardless if "uncle bob" taught you.

[WTF]

Another thing is the driving age and this whole L-plate thing. You should be able to start learning for your licence with 17 or 17 1/2 but only get it with 18 and not a day earlier. Tuition should only be carried out by proper instructors and not uncle bob on the passenger seat, who drives like a monkey on speed himself.

 

Does it matter who teaches you to drive ?. Take your test and if your competent you will pass, if your not, you will fail regardless if "uncle bob" taught you.

i don't think age is that much of an issue, it is a persons attitude to the use of the road, if you got your first licence and car at 20 it would still be something new and exciting with the potential to show off in!! i think the comfort, performance and stabillity of modern vehicles mask the actual speeds you're travelling. my first mini would be bouncing around like a pogostick at 50-60 and you were revving the arse off it. the mechanical noise inside was loud, and the brakes ( drum ) worked!? but needed adjusting regular. the tranny type van i drive for work, is comfy, quiet, wicked brakes with anti lock, will sit at 80 and feel solid and safe with half a ton in the back, if you get to 3 figures, it still feels a lot better than my old mini at 50 and the motor is not even revving at 4K revs. it is all very civilised. going back to attitude, i think many people who 'whizz' along regrdless are looking for the adrenaline rush. in the old mini at 60, the adrenaline was pumping and you felt 'on the edge', you never wanted to go much faster cos it felt all wrong, well on the way to ' brown adrenaline'. the tranny van at 80 doesn't even get the heart off tickover, it is almost boring. at 3 figures ( as i don't go there very often ) it just about tweaks the senses. modern cars need to be travelling 70+ to even wake up the senses for the 'rollor coaster' ride and adrenaline rush. the open roads are NOT the place to seek this excitement, and people ( especially new drivers ) are looking for the 'rush'. it is human nature. i don't think many 17 year olds would go out and get a Zafira as a car of choice either? borrow a parents and have very little experience in it perhaps??

[Grianane]

two or three years ago when I commented on the pernicious influence of the TT on road accidents I was immedieately reminded of the morning boat, this year I have seen many who are willing to enter the line of fire and suggest the same - I suspect in this incident, as in many others, that if simple measure such as surface modulation (ie a series of small road bumps) had been used it would have been quite difficult to take this bend at too high a speed.

 

 

Actually I think your wrong here - in this most recent (of many) incidents the bend wasn't able to be taken at high speed and as a result a passenger died.

 

The bend is clearly within the 40mph zone, there is ample time to decelerate to the legal speed limit before the 40mph sign, and for that matter between the sign and the bend. There is no justifiable reason whatsoever for any driver going (or attempting to go) round this particular bend at over 40mph. Tragic though the accident might have been if the driver was exceeding the limit then IMO he's responsible for this death.

[Silentbob]

YOU WILL NEVER STOP KIDS DRIVING LIKE TITS WITH LEGISLATION

 

Get THIS into your thick skulls

 

Upon passing one's driving test, one becomes installed with the mentality that one is now a superb driver. Add peer pressure, Saxo gift from parents, a sound system and drainpipe exhaust; 3 passengers and you have the cause of most these accidents.

 

The ONLY thing that will reduce fatalities on the island are the following.

 

1. Increase the minimum age to drive inline with the UK (17) adding that a full licence cannot be aquired until 18.

 

2. Cap the type of vehicle driven by a new driver to a diesel for one year - Try killing yourself in a Saxo 1.5 Diesel, it might be harder than you think.

 

3. All drivers passing their tests are obliged to register any car they drive with the road safety unit. The CAR, not the driver is then restricted to 50MPH regardless of who is driving it (R plates still ofc) These cars are restricted for 2 years to 50mph.

 

4. New drivers are not allowed to take more than one passenger at any time (1 year)- This is quite enough to give that hitch hiker a lift, but not enough to fill your back seat with giggling schoolgirls that you want to scare into bed.

 

5. During the testing process, drivers MUST attend a simulated RTA exercise (Easy enough to have one setup at the back of the Fire Stn/test centre with a crashed car, some decapitated dummies, fake blood and organs laying about etc) to get a general idea of what happens when you think you are the god of the roads.

 

 

And finally, I think the police should support the public, god knows I am one of many scourged by the chuckleheads whamming round by us of an evening. But tbh there is very little we can do apart from phone up the police saying there are nutters on marine drive again.

[WTF]

i think number 1 will happen whenever you get your licence, 2,3 and 4 all have merit, 5? dummies are dummies, they need showing the photographic evidence that the police take at such scenes, that is a real wake up call.

[Higgy]

Personally I would like to see new drivers restricted to cars with small engines. e.g For 18 months restricted to driving a car with an engine capacity of less than 1000cc. I'm pretty sure there are some little engined cars out there. I've seen too many 17/18 year olds driving turbo charged cars

[thebees]

That is a great idea Higgy, but I am a great fan of little cars regardless. The bigger the car the smaller the 'insert word to suit'

[Shit3hawk]

I Know I'm opening myself up to a total flaming but...... while ideas are being bandied about has anybody thought it could be down to Console games not helping the problem ,Think about it if they crash off the race course or lose control in a cityscape they just start that part of the level again i think they need to be better educated in the fact that they only get one chance at the BIG Game and realize that once its gone wrong there is NO Reset button out here.....

 

 

 

as for little cars I'd like to see the reintroduction of the the Peel Trident or P50, just think a thriving manx automotive industry and they could be made by the residents of the Jurby Hilton .....oh just thought they would be to busy playing consle games and enjoying the occasional hungerstrike and the likes

 

 

 

 

Runs and hides

[Inspector Derek Flint]

SilentBob makes some good points -

 

YOU WILL NEVER STOP KIDS DRIVING LIKE TITS WITH LEGISLATION

 

- maybe not, but some of the Eurpoean schemes like no passengers are a start.

 

Get THIS into your thick skulls

 

Upon passing one's driving test, one becomes installed with the mentality that one is now a superb driver. Add peer pressure, Saxo gift from parents, a sound system and drainpipe exhaust; 3 passengers and you have the cause of most these accidents.

 

- This wasn't a Saxo, and when all comes into the public domain, it might surprise you what it was.

 

The ONLY thing that will reduce fatalities on the island are the following.

 

1. Increase the minimum age to drive inline with the UK (17) adding that a full licence cannot be aquired until 18.

 

 

2. Cap the type of vehicle driven by a new driver to a diesel for one year - Try killing yourself in a Saxo 1.5 Diesel, it might be harder than you think.

- you'd be surprised, though I think the principle of this is worth further discussion

 

3. All drivers passing their tests are obliged to register any car they drive with the road safety unit. The CAR, not the driver is then restricted to 50MPH regardless of who is driving it (R plates still ofc) These cars are restricted for 2 years to 50mph.

 

logistically a bit of a 'mare, but it would help. The problem is, that R platers don't realise the main reason for carrying the plates - it means more experienced drivers can make allowances for them, such as at roundabouts, and when they are bimbling along at 50. It is a big help to everyone.

 

4. New drivers are not allowed to take more than one passenger at any time (1 year)- This is quite enough to give that hitch hiker a lift, but not enough to fill your back seat with giggling schoolgirls that you want to scare into bed.

 

See above re Europe. There are a few who would be here today in the light of this.

 

5. During the testing process, drivers MUST attend a simulated RTA exercise (Easy enough to have one setup at the back of the Fire Stn/test centre with a crashed car, some decapitated dummies, fake blood and organs laying about etc) to get a general idea of what happens when you think you are the god of the roads.

 

We have run a number of these, esp. in the schools. they do hit the button, for sure.

 

And finally, I think the police should support the public, god knows I am one of many scourged by the chuckleheads whamming round by us of an evening. But tbh there is very little we can do apart from phone up the police saying there are nutters on marine drive again.

 

 

- Keep on ringing in. Each complaint gets logged, and the repeat pattern people become targets for each of the neighbourhoods and the RPU. Reg numbers are very handy if you get it.

 

- Sad time. We hadn't had a fatality since 18 December, and were down again on the April to April figures from the year before. I was away for the weekend, so the other SIO got the call. thoughts to all the family and friends left behind.

 

Derek

 

Moderator note: bolded Dereks replies, as far as I can tell.

[When Skies Are Grey]

Derek...it may be an idea to either highlight your answers or that of the original post...if someone reads your post in isolation it looks somewhat peculiar.....