Euromanx Mf Action Group

[Gladys]

Apart from losing two hundred odd knicker, which in the greater scheme of things isn't a huge amount, I do have some serious concerns about our Government's role in this and other financial scandals.

 

I would not pretend to be energetic enough to take on those other instances, but if there are enough like minded souls who feel a united and coordinated front may help us in this particular case, I think it would be worth a shot. I do not seriously believe that we should go down the class action route, yet, that was hyperbole and puff, but we may get somewhere by acting together.

 

There are other creditors, but I am thinking only of passengers who have paid fares and have not had the benefit of the Flybe rescue package which has been much vaunted. I am formulating quite a few arguments as to why the Government, if not legally bound to give some assistance, should at least be morally bound to repay the tax paid for each ticket and at best ensure alternative arrangements are available to ALL those who have booked tickets and give an undertaking to end the open skies policy which just seems to land us with ever more destinations, but little hope of ever reaching any of them! If John Wright wants to get involved, then that would be great, and I am sure we would benefit from his advice, but at this stage, my gut feeling is that we should go down the non-formal legal action route.

 

So, who is interested?

[Celt]

Gladys, whilst i'm not a Lawyer, i would imagine that as you booked with Euromanx, that is your port off call as you, and them, entered into an agreement,is with them, not the IOM Government.

 

The Government package is to help out, not reinburse.

 

It's not the Governments fault the " Open Sky Policy " went tit's up.

[Gladys]

Fully appreciate the legalities of it Celt, but I also consider that the number of passengers losing out would have been reduced if the Government had not 'endorsed' Euromanx's continued trading whilst insolvent.

 

The liquidator is the first legal port of call, but as this is an Austrian company, I don't know who we get hold of here, seeing as this was an unregulated activity in a heavily regulated jurisdiction.

[Celt]

I hope you get sorted Gladys, i really do.

 

The main problem is the Government getting invloved with companies who are going bust.

 

They should have, imo, sorted it out ages ago.

 

If you need a tip where the Government is next going to " Bail " them out, look to the Meat Plant.

 

I know it's not comfort but i wish you well.

 

Btw, like reading your posts You're clever

[Gladys]

Thanks Celt, it isn't about the money really as it is not a huge amount, but it is the principle that some sort of financial responsibility in how Govt officials deal needs to be brought to mind. I am just reading the PQ of 13 May after the shit hit the fan and find that Government asked Euromanx for financial information back in October and it was not fully available; time to start a few bells a-ringing eh?

 

As for clever - if I was more f8ing clever I would have bought the tickets on my credit card!!!!

[Gladys]

Can anyone provide me with a transcript of this morning's MR interview?

[Celt]

financial information back in October and it was not fully available

 

Yet they waived over 3/4 mill fees owed?

 

Still, it shows why flight costs are so much here, as the Government own the Airport and set the landing, parking, and so on, fee's?

 

Didn't you know that the Government own the Airport and set all the fees accordiangly, spely wrong .

 

It#s like the monopoly of the Airports Athoughty in the UK i think.

 

 

I find it funny how the MD from the Airport was saying it was so bouyant and they'd had nearly 1 mill through the doors , yet 2 days later EM goes tit's up .

[jim]

I booked, they went bust, I'll have to book again, bugger life goes on.

 

Meat plant is like flogging a dead horse. kosha meat?? Halal meat?? were does that comes from on the

Island, probably smuggled in.............?

 

Isle of Man Creameries are a bunch of bully boys imho, only one independant milk heard on our Island now..... Why?

[Amadeus]

Pinned

 

Now get of the couch and meet up for a chat. It will make you feel better

[John Wright]

I am available to consult if any one wishes to set a meeting, maybe check my availability first.

 

I suspect Government never received the taxes for future flights, indeed I suspect it didn't receive the taxes for flights that have taken place. I think theyare paid in arrears after the flight takes place, same with landing and security and other charges. That leaves Treasury and DoT (Airport) as big creditors. I presume Aer Arran and fuel were emanding maoney up front at the end.

 

Interesting questions arise in a multi jurisdictional liquidation as to whether the funds in each jurisdiction are ring fenced for thta country and its creditors.

 

I have no idea what assets or liabilities the company had. There is a lot of talk about the escaped aircrfat, my suspicion is it would have been subject to an aircraft mortgage and the bank will take all that any way. I cannot think what they might have here, a phone system, a computer booking system, both second hand, tenancies on units at Ronaldsway, which in reality have no value

 

I am sure the Austrian liquidators will advertise here but as taxes, NI etc are preference debts to the state and the proceeds of sale of the plane will, in all probability, go to the bank, then employess have stake for unpaid wages, redundancy etc, I canot see any joy for ordinary creditors

 

There are a number of things, I feel, worth doing.

 

If you booked credit card claim. The banks may be better able to exert pressure on Dovernment

 

Check to ensure you don't have any travel insurance you have forgotten about, some debit cards with bank accounts for instance

 

Thirdly take out an annual travel policy with cover for IOM leg.

 

Fourthly remember book on line or direct, no protection, via an agent you get bonding.

 

Of course IOM Government could make it compulsory that every air line flying to annd fro was bonded, ie had an insurance in place to cover ticket refunds in case of insolvency. Contact your MHK and suggest that be introduced

 

Remember there are probably as many non Manx people affescted as Manx, all the TT visitors and holiday makers in summer, their taxes will be due to UK. What should UK do about it? what should IOM do about it? Should there be differential treatment?

 

I would not read to much into the Government knowing of the difficulties and allowing taxes and charges to mount up, or being willing to write them off. It is quite usual in a restructuring that large creditors, banks, governments etc agree not to call in or delay payment or even write off to ensure continuation. It is the directors who have to take the commercial decison about whether or not they are trading whilst insolvent, ie cannot meet their debts as and when they fall due, and thus assume personal liability for debts incurred from then on. The company had Governmet consent to not pay whilst it was negotiating a take over first with one group and second with another. Once the white knights disappeared, they had to fold.

 

Finally for those not old enough to remember how Manx Airlines came into being BMA and BIA between them had the largest share of routes and passengers to and from the IOM, neither were profitable. A bold decision was made to put their assets into Manx Airlines and operate as a hub air line based in IOM. It worked and Manx was profitable. OK so it lost its way and expanded, Manx Europe, British Regional and then it was sold on, well why not, and then dismantled by BA. It had lost its local identity by then.

 

Flybe now have the cahnce to do that, but to create a proper hub they will need to reinstate engineering and have a real centre of operations here. In my view that is what Governmet should be advocating and encouraging. They also need to put jets back onto our London link and rationalise the services

 

We have a bigger population and more people travel but not to justify an increase in flights to London from 3 in 1980 to 9 a day (4 Gatwick, 2 Luton and 3 City) or Liverpoolo or Manchester up from 6 to 11 and 4 to 10 per day and Birmingham 1 or 2 to 6.

 

We have had open skys, nothing wromg with that, we have had cheap fares, if you booked early enough, what we still haven't got is sufficient traffic to justify more airlines and more routes. What we need is not a state airline but a reliable one, not just in terms of flight times but also interms of commitment to IOM and its passengers and also in financial terms. And the cheap fares did not create exponential passenger growth and a flood of tourists

 

Maybe Flybe could hive down its now strengthened operations into a new Manx Airlines and see? Lose its silly baggae restrictions for Ilsanders with no option. Manx caried everything!

[Amadeus]

EuroManx Airways GmbH

Objekt 645 / Raum 645.328

1300 Wien-Flughafen (Vienna Airport)

Tel: (+43 or 0043) 01 / 7007 32537

 

If you come across any stuff in German/Austrian (same thing, well - nearly...) that might be relevant, let me know.

[Albert Tatlock]

Travel links are too important for the islands economy - time to consider nationalising both the SR and an airline - and subcontracting companies simply to run them (there's loads of companies who can and will do this) - with plenty of incentive schemes to make them do a good job and encourage visitors without ripping people off (i.e. based on volume not just turnover).

[The Reverend]

Have you checked your travel insurance?

[triskelion]

Travel links are too important for the islands economy - time to consider nationalising both the SR and an airline - and subcontracting companies simply to run them (there's loads of companies who can and will do this) - with plenty of incentive schemes to make them do a good job and encourage visitors without ripping people off (i.e. based on volume not just turnover).

Nationalisation is a heavily flawed device that was popularised by socialists and indeed only really entered the British experience in the post-war period because it was forced upon the Labour Party executive, many of whom, having served in the coalition government, realised controls were much more effective anyway.

 

There is no need to actually nationalise companies, especially as there is scant evidence it provides a better service. Bit off topic, but nationalising the Steam Packet would require the Government to purchase it in full, which is undesirable considering it was last purchased for £200 million. The User Agreement actually provides for a much better arrangement, as it guarantees a minimum level of service (which is itself substantially higher than that which was being provided when the agreement was introduced) which the Steam Packet exceeds by a substantial margin. Indeed, when giving evidence to the Tynwald Select Committee, it was pointed out that to provide the 'lifeline service' (ie the freight) would actually only require 4-6 sailings a week. Despite much shouting over the ending of the unreliable weekend winter sailings to Pierhead, the past winter actually saw a rise in reliability and passenger numbers. Whilst you could make the case that further regulations could be required (such as curbing the arguably extortionate food prices on the boats), nationalisation of the Steam Packet could only be justified if it really was on the brink of complete collapse, which is far from the case.

 

Of course, Euromanx did collapse, but (and I'm no expert) I would have thought it problematic to attempt to nationalise an Austrian-registered company, even if it were desirable. A national airline would almost certainly be inefficient and represent poor-value for residents and other users. I would say a much better solution is to encourage larger companies to offer services for the Island, such as is the case with FlyBe.

 

There may well be a case for an 'Air User Agreement' whereby the Government holds licenses (and landing rights) to certain key services, such as 2 services a day to London City, which it then leases on a costs basis to whichever airline can do it. This would protect the Island to a certain extent against insolvencies or other loss of services. If I recall correctly, this was actually put to Tony as a supplementary in the Keys on Tuesday, but for some reason he interpreted this as a call for an end to 'open skies.' Maybe the questioner did phrase it like that, but it unfortunately meant the whole idea was dismissed almost out of hand.

 

Otherwise, I really like John's proposal that carriers be required to provide (at least an option) of insurance against insolvency, but presumably this could also be extended to cancelled services. NatEx and thetrainline.com already give ticket purchasers the option of insurance like this, and I think it is an idea very much worth following up, as it would at least protect consumers from something like this happening in the future.

[Cambon]

This is the content of an email I received from Euromanx yesterday:

 

 

 

 

You may now be aware that EuroManx have announced that the company is ceasing operations with effect from 9th May 2008 with no further flights being operated.All passengers with tickets for EuroManx services can be assured that alternative arrangements are being sourced. All other arrangements will be advised when known.

 

Accordingly Flybe will carry all ticketed EuroManx passengers to Liverpool, Manchester and also initially to either London Luton or London Gatwick on services where Flybe have space available to accommodate the passenger. For passengers travelling within the next 10 days, FlyBe can be contacted on 0871 522 6157. For travel after this date please call after 12May.

 

EuroManx passengers to Belfast will be reaccomodated on Manx2.com. Passengers using the Belfast service are asked to email Manx2 at belfast@manx2.com.

 

Please enusre that you contact the above airlines as soon as possible in order to re-accomodate your flights on their services.

 

For the past 5 years EuroManx has focused on providing a locally based operation offering high quality schedules and services dedicated to the Isle of Man.

 

During this time the employees have worked hard to develop and grow the business but over the last 6 months a number of factors including rising fuel prices and reduced passenger numbers have proved to be insurmountable obstacles to the airline being able to continue to operate.

 

End e-mail

 

 

Ok, that being teh case, what is the problem? They changed my flights no problem. So I am on Flybe now and the times are slightly different (earlier out, later back) but my connections should be fine. I suggest people follow the same instructions.