Scotland To Raise Drink-buying Age

[Albert Tatlock]

Lib Dem eh?

You're confusing my political philosophy with a political party - an easy mistake to make I suppose. Britain is espoused to be a Liberal Democracy whether it's under Tory, Labour or Liberal democrat party rule. If anything I am apolitical and will slag off any party or politician equally. NuShite is in power in the UK and led by an overtaxing complete tosser, so just comes in for a lot more stick from me. No party has ever got me this angry before about what they are doing to the UK and its impacts on the island - including Maggie.

[bluemonday]

So our own PK is raising it in Tynwald

Click

[Pale Rider]

I think this is a bad policy as it does not address the behavioural problem. Off the top of my head I'd say the behavioural problem is two fold - firstly people of all ages drinking to excess; but also doing it in a public place where their behaviour feeds into a general atmosphere that loutish behaviour is acceptable.

 

Buying alchohol from an off licence has only a tenuous connection with these issues. In fact licenced premises are far more problematic as bar crawling (and closing time) is a significant factor in putting drunk people out into the streets to puke, fight and be lewd.

 

Obviously young kids congregating at the bus stop or up at the local "rec" to get pissed on alcopops and cider is a problem; but to be honest concentrating on that and ignoring the bigger problems isn't going to solve anything. Making drinking in public, after being warned not to do so, would be far more effective, but that [cynic] would require the state to be involved in addressing the issue rather than bureaucratically passing the buck to someone not actually responsible for the problem![/cynic]

 

Also I find the idea that a squaddy returning a war to get married to his beau will be unable to buy the champagne for their reception farcical.

 

I would agree that kids buying alcohol from an off licence to drink in the park is only a small part of the problem. The Scottish Government say raising this purchase age will help combat binge drinking, but I would have thought most binge drinking takes place in pubs, and more often than not by people over the age of 18! Having 2 different minimum purchase ages for shops and pubs just doesn't make sense.

 

Some supermarkets, ASDA being the main one have introduced a scheme to ask everyone under the age of 25 for ID before serving them drink. Surely the smaller off licences adopting this scheme would be preferable to an outright ban on serving under 21s?

 

Regarding making drinking in public after being warned not to do so. In Scotland many public places, like certain city or town centres already have outright bans on drinking in public. So you don't actually need to be warned to have the drink confiscated or be told to move on. Councils can apply for this local law, particularly if their area has been encountering problems with under age or indeed any drinkers causing a nuisance in public. Some places that applied have seen vandalism drop considerably.

[triskelion]

I would agree that kids buying alcohol from an off licence to drink in the park is only a small part of the problem. The Scottish Government say raising this purchase age will help combat binge drinking, but I would have thought most binge drinking takes place in pubs, and more often than not by people over the age of 18! Having 2 different minimum purchase ages for shops and pubs just doesn't make sense.

 

Some supermarkets, ASDA being the main one have introduced a scheme to ask everyone under the age of 25 for ID before serving them drink. Surely the smaller off licences adopting this scheme would be preferable to an outright ban on serving under 21s?

 

Regarding making drinking in public after being warned not to do so. In Scotland many public places, like certain city or town centres already have outright bans on drinking in public. So you don't actually need to be warned to have the drink confiscated or be told to move on. Councils can apply for this local law, particularly if their area has been encountering problems with under age or indeed any drinkers causing a nuisance in public. Some places that applied have seen vandalism drop considerably.

Seeing it put this way, it seems the measures will actually encourage binge drinking and resulting anti-social behaviour. If people are drinking in their homes, it isn't a really a big problem, but if you encourage people to go out, where they will still get hammered, they are then in public places and much more likely to cause trouble.

 

But Peekay, as part of his of going campaign against young'uns (he also proposed that people born after 1980 should have to make higher NI contributions), has leapt on this, and will no doubt accuse the Gvt of incompetance for not copying it straight away.

 

Braidwood just pointed out that if prices are raised in the Island people will start making booze runs to the UK.

[Billsmurf]

I have often wondered if it would not be a good idea if the clock was turned back, back to the days when Supermarkets and other outlets could only sell booze at certain times, also reduce the number of outlets. Over here we have places selling 24/7, also you are able to phone and have it delivered 24/7.

Perhaps by turning the clock back, it may make those wanting a drink use the pubs, where the landlords could keep an eye open for those having a wee drop to much.

Maybe it would also make it harder for youngsters to get hold of it.

It is a problem, like drugs. One where folks will have numerous ideas on how to solve it, but will it ever be solved.Perhaps the best that can be hoped for is that it is a passing craze, one where the youngsters themselfs will realise just what they are doing to themselfs, learn from it and pass it on to their offspring.

[triskelion]

What do you mean 'youngsters' though?

 

If you mean under 18s (the people likely to be drinking it in parks or whatever) then its already illegal and supermarkets (the ones accused of driving this) have much better systems of accountability for preventing sale to them than off-licenses or pubs do.

 

Over 18s are more likely to do their anti-social 'binge drinking' in clubs anyway, then come out on to the street, vomit, then start shouting abuse at people.

 

I can't see how people legally purchasing, say, 54 bottles of stella for £20 from ASDA are then downing them all and then going out and being a disturbance.

 

Is there something I'm missing here?

[Pale Rider]

What do you mean 'youngsters' though?

 

If you mean under 18s (the people likely to be drinking it in parks or whatever) then its already illegal and supermarkets (the ones accused of driving this) have much better systems of accountability for preventing sale to them than off-licenses or pubs do.

 

Over 18s are more likely to do their anti-social 'binge drinking' in clubs anyway, then come out on to the street, vomit, then start shouting abuse at people.

 

I can't see how people legally purchasing, say, 54 bottles of stella for £20 from ASDA are then downing them all and then going out and being a disturbance.

 

Is there something I'm missing here?

 

Good point. Although I like going to the pub, I also like having beer in the fridge for whenever I may not be going out of a weekend. The most cost effective way of doing this is to buy a multipack of lager in the supermarket. This could last a month or more in the fridge before I use it all. I suspect most people buying beer in the supermarket are doing the same. Otherwise you would see people absolutely plastered in supermarket car parks getting stuck into their 18 packs of Stella before they reached their car because they couldn't wait!

 

The other part of the Scottish Governments plan I wasn't aware of, would be making supermarkets have a booze only till. This would mean having to buy your drink at a separate department within the store. You wouldn't be able to buy it alongwith your shopping. Apparently this is to discourage "casual buying".

 

Now as a kid, I vaguely remember supermarkets having separate off licences, and remember my dad going to get his beer for the weekend while my mum went to the main part of the store for the groceries. Does anyone else remember supermarkets having separate off licences? Then they seemed to be phased out and integrated into the supermarket itself. Seems like this plan would be a step backwards.

 

Now here's a thought. With all these politicians doing all this good for our health and making it harder to get a drink, do you think they will close their bars in the Scottish Parliament or House of Commons to make their own living healthier?

[Billsmurf]

I can recall supermarkets having seperate counters for booze and ciggies. It may well be a good thing to bring them back.I did a little walk last night and within 5 minutes off where i live there are 5 outlets for booze, one being 24 hour and one of them is a garage. When i was a child there was only one.

[Cambon]

And that's all Labour is it? The UK tax system was completely different under the conservatives?

 

It must be so easy supporting an unelectable party Albert. You get to slag everything without any worries that the bollocks policies your candidates put forward will ever be put to the test.

 

Actually, you have a point - to a degree. The "Nushites" used to blame the previous administration for everything. Well that is who I now blame as the previous two adminstrations are both labour and they have done NOTHING to fix the problem. On the contrary, they have made it worse, much worse.