[BBC News] Bird nest warning to dog owners

[Ronague Ram]

What about bird droppings, which can carry some very nasty infections, rat urine and poo etc. etc. You know, life is risky. Responsible dog owners do take that responsibility seriously, so to try to blanket ban them from areas like Douglas beach is just penalising the majority for the acts of a selfish minority.

 

As ever, targetted enforcement of responsible dog ownership would improve everybody's quality of life, dog owners and non-dog owners alike. A blanket ban just impacts on the quality of life of a large sector of the population, as the responsbile ones will observe it, while the miscreants will carry on regardless.

 

You sound like a responsible owner Gladys, but dog excrement is recognised for several reasons as a more significant health risk. This summary is worth a glance healthrisks. I can't help thinking though that the original topic has been sidelined - bear in mind the nesting birds and act responsibly with dogs - simple advice and surely common sense that should be agreeable to all. Many dogs seek their exercise chasing birds where the chance presents itself. There are still many areas available for exercise that don't impact on the coastal nesting bird population.

[P.K.]

Well, PK, walks favoured by me actually, and I see no reason why my enjoyment of walks should be curtailed by small minded, mealy mouthed twits who see something they don't like and then call for it to be banned.

 

On your first point, some people are afraid of dogs, well yes. But there are also people who are afraid of birds, cats and their own shadow. If my dog is under control (and he is when out walking, he only has regard for me as his pack leader) then someone else's fear is not my concern providing my dog is not interfering with them, and he doesn't. Everything that has teeth can bite, that is why we all have teeth, but that does not mean they will bite. I said above that I won't take my dog into a park, because I don't think it is the right place to exercise my dog, but there are others who feel that a walk around the park with their dog on a lead is acceptable, I can't really argue with that. If someone has an anti-social dog which they do not control in a park then they should be fined and banned from using the park as that does interfere with others' enjoyment, but not a blanket ban.

Flag down a cab and head for real street. Come off it Gladys! People who are afraid of dogs are not "small minded, mealy mouthed twits" - they are people who are afraid of dogs. There are a lot of them as well. Lots lots more than those who "are afraid of birds, cats and their own shadow" as we all know. Frankly your attempts to demean those with a genuine concern really does put you into the "selfish dog-owner" bracket. Lots of people are afraid of dogs, including yours. So what if it seems irrational to you as a dog owner- it's still real enough to them FFS! It's selfish owners like yourself that ruin other innocent folks enjoyment of the countryside. Try and be big enough to take it on board and move on....

 

On your second point, my dogs do shit in my garden and I clear it up. I do not take them out for walks with the sole purpose of letting them shit, it is to exercise them (which makes them better behaved animals, by the by) but, unfortunately, and to coin a phrase, shit happens. Soil is full of nasty germs (tetanus being the main one that springs to mind) what would you do, have all soil where children play sterilised? What about the football pitches after a match; there must be a ton of snot on the pitch after the delicate single nostril blow that footballers effect, is it acceptable for children to fall across that?

What about bird droppings, which can carry some very nasty infections, rat urine and poo etc. etc. You know, life is risky. Responsible dog owners do take that responsibility seriously, so to try to blanket ban them from areas like Douglas beach is just penalising the majority for the acts of a selfish minority.

 

As ever, targetted enforcement of responsible dog ownership would improve everybody's quality of life, dog owners and non-dog owners alike. A blanket ban just impacts on the quality of life of a large sector of the population, as the responsbile ones will observe it, while the miscreants will carry on regardless.

Dear me, the words "clutching" and "straws" spring to mind here. I think you will find snot on a football pitch degrades a lot quicker than highly offensive stinking dogshit. And admit it, if you found your car sprinkled with dogshit rather than guano you would soon put a stop to it.

 

Ask anyone if they want to see a dog squatting to take a shit and the answer would be "No". Ask anyone if they want dog turds where they walk and the answer would be "No". So stop trying to make pathetic comparisons and excuses and face the fact that dog owners such as yourself frighten and offend a great many people with your dogs and their dogshit. End of.

[Gladys]

I was not calling people who are afraid of dogs small-minded, mealy mouth twits, I was calling people like you who want to ban dogs from everywhere small-minded, mealy mouth twits. I keep my dogs away from anyone who exhibits fear of dogs, of course. Pathetic I may be, but more rational than the likes of you who probably foster fear of dogs in their offspring, rather than teaching them how to behave around dogs and give them the confidence to deal with dog encounters.

 

The likelihood of my car becpomiong bespattered with dog shite is pretty remote and not a reason to ban dogs.

 

I take it you were not a dog handler in the Met then?

[P.K.]

I was not calling people who are afraid of dogs small-minded, mealy mouth twits, I was calling people like you who want to ban dogs from everywhere small-minded, mealy mouth twits.

Fine by me, but at the end of the day people have more rights than barking, bounding-up, biting, shitting dogs. You would do well to remember that.

 

The likelihood of my car becoming bespattered with dog shite is pretty remote and not a reason to ban dogs.

Then don't make feeble comparisons between birdshit and dogshit.

 

I keep my dogs away from anyone who exhibits fear of dogs, of course. Pathetic I may be, but more rational than the likes of you who probably foster fear of dogs in their offspring, rather than teaching them how to behave around dogs and give them the confidence to deal with dog encounters.

I take it you were not a dog handler in the Met then?

In the Met I didn't handle anything more ferocious than some computers that didn't exist - allegedly.

 

People can't tell if a dog is going to attack them or not, and that's the point. For me that's a good enough reason to keep them all on a lead when other people are around - simple as. When my daughter was about four a dog went for her on the banks of the Thames at Marlow for no other reason than she was innocently walking along minding her own business. I gave it a really good kicking and kept kicking it as it ran away. Despite the fact it left a deep graze about an inch from my daughters' right eye the owner was incensed that I would go for his stupid vicious animal that he clearly couldn't control. He was lucky I didn't put it in the river and in retrospect I wish I had and him with it.

 

Now as then if a dog bounds up to me, whatever it's intentions, I lay into it. If you can't control it you shouldn't keep it. End of.

 

I would like to hear how you prevent your dog from interfering with nesting birds as well as people Gladys? Do you keep it on a lead to prevent it harming them or do you let it roam around trampling eggs, fledglings and nests? Just curious.

[yehyehyeh]

People can't tell if a dog is going to attack them or not, and that's the point. For me that's a good enough reason to keep them all on a lead when other people are around - simple as. When my daughter was about four a dog went for her on the banks of the Thames at Marlow for no other reason than she was innocently walking along minding her own business. I gave it a really good kicking and kept kicking it as it ran away. Despite the fact it left a deep graze about an inch from my daughters' right eye the owner was incensed that I would go for his stupid vicious animal that he clearly couldn't control. He was lucky I didn't put it in the river and in retrospect I wish I had and him with it.

 

Now as then if a dog bounds up to me, whatever it's intentions, I lay into it. If you can't control it you shouldn't keep it. End of.

 

now you see that could be your problem there..................if you think all dogs are going to attack you then they most probably will, especially if you act like that, not all dogs are vicious creatures, if it had been a human who had attacked your daughter, you wouldnt be kicking everyone you saw that came near you or her again?

[Gladys]

I would like to hear how you prevent your dog from interfering with nesting birds as well as people Gladys? Do you keep it on a lead to prevent it harming them or do you let it roam around trampling eggs, fledglings and nests? Just curious.

 

I keep away from designated bird sanctuaries/conservation areas and endeavour not to disturb the wildlfie population in other non-desingated areas, as I explained above. He roams but does not trample any more nests, eggs or chicks than anyone else wandering around the same paths, i.e. nil. I don't need to keep my dog from interefering with other people as he is just not interested, just as he is not interested in other dogs unless they come up to him. Different story at home though, where he will bark at anyone who may come in uninvited. Fair game in my view.

 

I agree with the poster above. I suspect you are predisposed to aggression and the dogs pick that up. Sad to hear about your daughter, but in all the years I have had dogs (and children) I have never had one bite or attack a child, or an adult for that matter. My dogs have grown up with children and just as the children know how to deal with dogs, so do my dogs know how to behave around children; they generally ignore them. End of.

[Albert Tatlock]

1000 dog owners turning up outside the Town Hall would make them stink think.

[P.K.]

I agree with the poster above. I suspect you are predisposed to aggression and the dogs pick that up. Sad to hear about your daughter, but in all the years I have had dogs (and children) I have never had one bite or attack a child, or an adult for that matter. My dogs have grown up with children and just as the children know how to deal with dogs, so do my dogs know how to behave around children; they generally ignore them. End of.

Wrong. And I have been the owner of three dogs, all Border Collies. The bit I don't like at all is the way that dogs are simply not designed to grow old.

 

All my dogs were trained to belly-down and freeze on command and I never came across a person out walking who didn't appreciate that to bits i.e. it was obvious that the dog was well under control. Sure it's a bit showy as well but if they can do it then why not...

 

The only time one of my dogs showed any aggression towards a child I thought it was absolutely hilarious. The lady next door came around for a chat bringing her two-year-old daughter with her. We were sitting around the kitchen table having a brew when I became aware that Kipwood (for it was he) was growling in a low way that meant imminent trouble. I looked across to find that Kip was growling at the two-year-old, who was sitting on the floor happily grabbing Kip's grub out of his bowl and stuffing it into her mouth! I grabbed the dogs collar and then I remember the devoted mum screaming her head off. She scooped her happily scoffing offspring up into her arms, into the Volvo and straight off to the Docs. I laughed and laughed....

 

Full credit to Kip, she should have been bitten but wasn't.

[Gladys]

I shouldn't let this fall into a oneupmanship thing, but one area that I have always thought will give trouble from a dog and that is its food. So I have always made sure that any dog I had would not be possessive of its food with humans.

 

Some breeds are very trainable and Collies are one; they just live to please their owner and work collaboratively herding as part of a pack (with you as leader), a trait that is useful as a working rounding up dog. Falling straight to their belly is a natural manouvre to hide behind tussocks and bumps when sizing up the prey and one, of course, that you make use of.

 

Labradors, which I have, are also very trainable, but their hunting MO is different to a Collies. They like to see things descending from the sky and track them down, be it over land or water. Usually a ball, but something that the pack leader had identified as being the prey and they will bring it back for the pack. A typical retriever response. They do not look for things to hunt on the ground, unlike the sight hounds, they are not quick but they are good at watching the skies for something to fall then they will retrieve. So Labs don't chase things on the ground very much, that is not what they are programmed to do. Their reward is to bring home the pheasant or grouse that has suddenly fallen from the sky (shot) and have a share in the dibs.

 

Then the last group that I have any knowledge of is the terriers. These chaps have been bred to go to earth (hence the name). This class I find the harder to handle because they are always in their hunting territory. They have been bred over many years to be aggressive pest controllers or ground level hunters and you cannot turn them off. Intensely loyal, but intensely aggressive. They have been bred to be brave dogs to go down dark holes without fear and without a pack leader. This is the group I would be most dubious of, but as the majority are quite small (or how else do they get to earth) the damage is limited, unless you start thinking about the terriers bred for fighting. Having said that, I have had a little terrier for 15 years now and she is a gem with humans, but a pain with other dogs; too much competition at ground level.

[Graculus]

(One dog managed to eat a bird in mid-flight a few years back!)

 

Flying dogs! Whatever next?

 

Does being crapped on by a flying dog bestow the same good luck that's associated with seagull poo?

[GD4ELI]

Pathetic I may be, but more rational than the likes of you who probably foster fear of dogs in their offspring, rather than teaching them how to behave around dogs and give them the confidence to deal with dog encounters.

 

Well said girl, I often meet daft mothers with offspring who are scared stiff of dogs because mother has the brains of a sparrow. When I meet the children without mother and introduce them to my three spaniels the kids exhibit more gumption that their mother.

 

There's no such thing as a bad dog, just bad owners. (The same applies to children.)

 

[GD4ELI]

People can't tell if a dog is going to attack them or not, and that's the point.

If you're experienced with dogs then you'll know by the dog's stance.

[GD4ELI]

When I meet the children without mother...

 

50 year-old bachelors don't get arrested for talking to children here, also we don't get arrested for photographing buses. And we don't have to strip to our y-fronts when getting the ferry to Germany.

[Miss Take]

Why is it acceptable on an internet forum to take the most extreme examples of behaviour and present them as if they are the norm? Most dogs have never hurt a human being. Most have never even acted in an intimidating fashion towards humans. Most people are either friendly or indifferent towards dogs. When I'm out walking my two dogs, more often than not, if we meet non dog owners, the people will either ignore the dogs completely or come up to them and pet them and ask me about them (they are both incredibly cute, which helps).

 

Almost never do I encounter adults who are afraid of dogs. I occasionally do encounter children out with their parents who are afraid of them. It's normally obvious that the fear stems from the parent - in these cases they will either avoid the dogs completely or pick up the child as they pass - which seems fair enough to me. Sometimes we encounter a prent with a child who is afraid of dogs and the parent will check whether the dogs are friendly and then encourage the child to pet them - these are the parents who earn my respect immediately - they're trying to do the best for their child and get them over an irrational fear (I'm sure that the anti dog brigade will say that it isn't irrational but that's just their opinion).

 

To say that all dogs should be kept on leads at all times in case one of these infrequent encounters occurs is just plain ignorant.

[Albert Tatlock]

Almost never do I encounter adults who are afraid of dogs. I occasionally do encounter children out with their parents who are afraid of them. It's normally obvious that the fear stems from the parent - in these cases they will either avoid the dogs completely or pick up the child as they pass - which seems fair enough to me.

My bet is that most of these over-protective parents, full of their own fears (of pets, of playing in the garden or even getting covered in dirt etc.) often passed down by their parents in turn, are more often the parents of asthmatic and food-intolerant etc. children. My ex picked up this attitude from her parents, which meant we didn't have a pet (fnarr fnarr) when we were married. The best thing kids can do IMO when they are little is have pets, socialise and pick up bugs from other kids, and eat dirt and worms in the garden etc. Kids like that generally don't need to go to the doctor anywhere near as often, as they build up a great deal of resistance.

 

IMO in societal terms, some of what we are seeing now results from a) the warning we were given in the late 60s, viz 'that if we didn't get the NHS to fit society, we would have to face up to moulding society to fit the NHS' - hence the socialist NuLiebour demonisation of groups of people, especially smokers and drinkers, b) add to that the 'politics of fear' era we are currently living in, and this permitted demonisation is being allowed to extend itself so it seems every tin-pot dictator in a council, and every w***er in a lobby group, think they have the god given right and capability to force their own view of the world onto society - little wonder bylaws like these park restrictions get put into place without such as a whimper.

 

It's becoming a f****d-up world and we're all guilty through apathy of letting it become even more so, and it's way past time Joe Public, who is the majority, started standing up and saying - 'NO - enough!'. I really hope all these dog owners get themselves organised to protest this - otherwise it'll be just like everything else - another yard down the slippery slope of the thin ended wedge NuLiebour seem intent on ramming into the arse of British society.