An Island Covered In Wind Turbines?

[Hoofhearted]

It's probably a good idea to go wind power but I would like to see the figures, when B&Q brought theirs out I did some calcs and it would have taken something like 14 years to get your money back & that relied on there being no less than a force 4 wind at all times and that I was making use of the power generated for at least 12 hours a day (can't use it when you're at work & the MEA only want it a peak times...).

 

Wouldn't it have been a bit of good old Manx "forward thinking" if, instead of a curve roofed and glass walled power station which runs on gas, we had fitted gas co-generation boilers (provide heat & up to 3kW of electricity - only when needed) in everyone's home at the Governments expense - it would probably have cost us less than the Barclays/MEA loans debarcle !! We could then have had a small number of wind turbines etc. to fill the capacity gap and provide street lighting & commercial power for offices and industry.

 

What a great thing hindsight is...

[Titanic]

Thank god common sense is finally prevailing. Wind? We have got loads of it here nearly all year round. The problem is not the money nor where to put them, but trying to persuade certain MHKs to sign up for a free energy supply that will never run out and power the island for many centuries to come. We also have lots of liquid sunshine too. The hydro power station in Llanberis in North Wales pumps the water used during the daytime back up into a lake above for use the next day. The IoM could have a smaller version. Between the wind and water, which we have in abundance, it could power us with out using gas or oil at all. As it is free, we wouldn't be held to ransom from mid-eastern and east European countries every time they want to buy a new football club or hotel chain.

 

Its not a case of if or when. We need wind turbines right now. Hide them behind the Calf if you don't want to spoil the view, but personally I like them. Sod the bird anoraks, you can't get much greener than wind power.

 

We need to turn all the political hot air into wind power today. It should be the peoples' decision not a small group of people. A Wind power referendum is needed as a starting point.

[cheeky boy]

We have the second most powerful tidal flow in the British isles flowing between the island and the Calf

 

Source? (of the statement, not the flow)

 

 

The other one is at Corryvecken in Scotland, can't remember the source but feel free to contradict me

[Frances]

The hydro power station in Llanberis in North Wales pumps the water used during the daytime back up into a lake above for use the next day. The IoM could have a smaller version.

where ? Sulby reservoir can supply some power but I think less than 1MW - catch with wind power is that the wind is variable thus you need alternative sources that can be switched on/off as needed - pumped hydro of the size of sulby can supply a brief short term surge (after which the gas turbines can speed up) but the water is not pumped back as far as I know - I can't think of anywhere suitable on Island for a pumped storage system - you need height + considerable volume.. Countries such as Denmark that make good use of wind rely on neighbours to both absorb unwanted power and to supply power when the wind slackens - I guess the cable link to England could serve in same way.

Tidal power tho extremely reliable is not available 100% of time thus needs a storage system (not feasible on island) or unused capacity brought into play when necessary.

[Gladys]

Our politicos do need to give this some serious thought and, if necessary, ditch the new power station in favour of a system which will power the island from sustainable resources. One of the drivers behind the power station was to make sure the island would be power self-sufficient. Unfortunately, the source of energy for the power station is imported so that objective couldn't be achieved; we can generate our own power but we need imported fuel to do that.

 

We did have an eye to true energy management when the Peel power station was built as the heat 'waste' was used to heat commissioners houses, or at least that is what they said on Tomorrow's World all those years ago. That was, at the time, very progressive and, in hindsight, definitely the way to go, but we seem to have lost that vision. What happened to Peel power station, is it still producing or was it a great idea which failed at delivery?

 

Surely, between wind and tidal power we can achieve real self-sufficiency?

 

I also think we need to be more receptive to nuclear power, but understand the concerns about disposal of the waste.

 

It ain't easy, but the way things are going we do need to have a fundamental rethink on how we source our energy and be prepared to make some unpleasant, but long sighted, decisions.

[manxy]

I'm all in favour of wind or sea power, but can you see the MEA panicking at the chance or thought of losing control over their monopoly?

From a personal point of view, it would be great to see my bills go downwards for a change, but then poor old MEA men in suits wouldn't have their bumper pay packets...

[Freggyragh]

Frances, you say tidal power is not available 100% of the time.

According to each tidal atlas I've looked at it is, I'd be very surprised if you could give GPS co-ordinates for anywhere around our coast for which tidal flow predictions are absolute zero at any stage of the tide. If you could give two spots with simultaneous zero predictions I'd be amazed.

[asitis]

Hey doesn't Mike Proffitt have something to do with an alternative green energy company, perhaps we could get him to help !!!

[Titanic]

I'm all in favour of wind or sea power, but can you see the MEA panicking at the chance or thought of losing control over their monopoly?

From a personal point of view, it would be great to see my bills go downwards for a change, but then poor old MEA men in suits wouldn't have their bumper pay packets...

 

Hit the nail right on the head. It's not that we don't have resources, be it wind, tide or hydro power, and a way of selling off the excess power to the big island, the real problem is all those suits. Lower bills from using the island's natural resources will of course mean lower profits for the suits. We can't let happen !! Until the suits can see a clear profit in wind or sea power it will never happen. We will go green only when there is a profit to be made from it. Sad fact, but true.

 

As for the hydro power station, the height between the two lakes in Wales is not that high. I was quite surprised when I went on tour around a few years back. Yes, we don't have a current location such as Subly to use, but nothing is impossible.

[triskelion]

I'm fairly sure John Shimmin was talking about large wind turbines, rather than domestic ones. The latter are genuinely rubbish unless you have enough land to place them away from obstructions (ie buildings and trees), or so high above your house you will either never get planning permission or it will pull your house down during a stiff breeze.

 

Best place I can think of to place them would be off Glen Wyllin/Kirk Michael beaches. No houses overlook it, so views are not impaired and few people go there to, say, watch the sun set anyway. The beach is not used for watersports and is too shallow for shipping so they wouldn't cause an obstruction. If I recall correctly most of the Island's winds are North-westerly so they would be well-placed. The area is not important for wildlife so they would not interfere with bird migration. They would be placed off-shore (except perhaps at super-low tides) so they wouldn't blight the landscape of the Island like they have in Great Britain.

 

Putting them on the Calf (a nature reserve) would cause so many more problems that are unnecessary when you consider there are better sites (access especially would be a problem for the Calf.

 

Whilst the Calf/Sound current is obviously a great potential source of energy, I find it hard to justify placing a seal-blender there in order to keep the Douglas residents' plasma screens running.

 

Gladys: The general (informed) consensus on renewable energy is that it does not, as yet, allow for a complete energy solution, especially not with extremely variable sources like wind and tidal. On the Island we can provide some baseload with the EfW plant and wood CHP units, and potentially manage grid stability with limited hydro and AD-produced methane, but for the foreseeable future we will either need to maintain a gas plant (hopefully smaller) or invest massively in renewables and rely on the undersea cable to maintain quality from UK sources.

[Albert Tatlock]

I understand: Pulrose has a capacity of almost 50MW, Peel a capacity of nearly 40MW, a diesel generating station at Ramsey with a capacity of 7MW, and a small hydro station at Sulby with a capacity of 1.0MW = 98MW or 0.1 Gigawatt total. Approximately 1000 large wind turbines produce a gigawatt, and so 100 would in theory meet the needs of the island - most of which could be placed in an offshore wind farm out to sea off the NW coast of the island IMO.

 

I would hate to see these things stuck all over the island - having large turbines on the land would be more about an 'environmental statement' to me, when they can be put out at sea and out of sight - along with other wave-generating technologies.

 

Naturally as turbines are not always 100% efficient (the wind is not always blowing), and we can not 'store' the excess energy easily, we would still need generating capacity to replace the lost energy from the turbines (about 80% of what we've got now for a cold windless winter day), and the ability to send any excess generated energy to the UK. A major offshore wind farm of say 200 turbines, could make the island a net exporter of environmentally generated electricity. The cost would be in excess of £1 million per turbine IMO - that has to be found from somewhere - so I can't imagine much change in electricity pricing for a while.

[Frances]

Frances, you say tidal power is not available 100% of the time.

According to each tidal atlas I've looked at it is, I'd be very surprised if you could give GPS co-ordinates for anywhere around our coast for which tidal flow predictions are absolute zero at any stage of the tide. If you could give two spots with simultaneous zero predictions I'd be amazed.

tides don't flow in the same direction 24/7if they did then please tell me the gps location of the sink - assuming the turbines work bidirectionally there will be a slack period as the tide changes direction - probably 1 hour out of 11 ? - if you can find two sites seperated by more than one hour tide time around the island then you could provide a near 50% guarantee of peak installed capacity

[Frances]

I understand: Pulrose has a capacity of almost 50MW, Peel a capacity of nearly 40MW, a diesel generating station at Ramsey with a capacity of 7MW, and a small hydro station at Sulby with a capacity of 1.0MW = 98MW or 0.1 Gigawatt total. Approximately 1000 large wind turbines produce a gigawatt, and so 100 would in theory meet the needs of the island - most of which could be placed in an offshore wind farm out to sea off the NW coast of the island IMO.

Pulrose is I think larger (near 80 MW) - Peel is never apparently never run near peak capacity (and I think it may be smaller - it was acknowledged that Peel is probably unnecessary ) - the cable has I think a peak capacity of 90MW - Ramsey + Sulby are really emergency supplies for essential operations.

Large turbines are 3 to 6MW each but even on the Island there are many days with insufficient wind and some days with too much wind to safely run the turbines - thus peak installed capacity is unlikely to be available for considerable periods - tidal power has slack periods thus for foggy days in winter we might need to switch off Douglas for a couple of hours each tide.

[Albert Tatlock]

Interesting article covering issues/costs etc. onshore and offshore.

[BigDave]

Oil price crisis excepted, personally I can't stand the things. Noisy, unsightly and they will produce bugger all during a winter anti cyclone.

It's only really the older turbines that are noisy. The newer direct drive turbines are virtually silent bar a little swoosh sound from the wind.