Motorcyce Event On The Ayres Nnr

[squelch]

CJW. I don't know how long your involvement with the Ayres goes back. However I do feel that human beings are part of the ecosystem of the area.

 

The Ayres belonged to farmers in that area until WW2 and was taken over, by the government of the time for army use, but never returned to the original owners at the end of the war.

 

I remember that in the 70's it was a popular camping spot for Manx families in summer. People who often could not afford holidays off the island but enjoyed the nature and natural beauty on their doorstep.

 

My family has very precious memories of summers spent there admiring, respecting and also protecting the very aspects of nature which you now feel that only yourself and other eco warriors are capable of saving.

 

The Ayres area was taken over and designated a nature reserve by government. Many previously enjoyed activities are now restricted and it is now obviously regarded as a private little empire for people like yourself ,who have the self belief, that they know what is best for both for man and nature.

 

I would suggest to you current thinking regarding American National Parks.

Mans intervention with nature is not necessarily a good thing.

What we as humans think as right and try and change is not neccesarily what nature would choose.

 

We have a obligation as humans not to destroy our enviroment with pollution.

We also have the right to coexist with other species on this earth without being denied direct contact with them.

 

The Ayres belong to the people of the Isle of Man.

Not to a chosen few.

[spanna]

I cannot believe how many people hre couldnt give a cr4p about the environment, I'm not talking extreme hippie style either, just a standard awareness.

Do any of you have children? I bloody hope not cus you all sound extremely selfish people.

 

I didnt realise the Isle of man was full of so many thick red top readers. Quite shocking really, I was always of the opinion the majority of manx citizens were modern thinking people.

Hopefully the idiots that posted in this thread are the minority.

[spanna]

Squelch, interesting post. Just a few issues with it.

The Terns existed long before humans did. So your "the ayres belonged to farmers" point doesnt apply as the terns will already have been there.

Also you say that humans shouldnt change nature. That is correct they shouldnt. If the race went ahead humans would have changed the natural ecosystem. By the race link being diverted to use a (shock horror) road (like everyone else) , the natural state of terns nesting on the ayres can continue. What has happened here is mans interference has been stopped.

Im sure you agree that is a good thing.

 

Also Where is this private little empire on the ayres? Whenever ive been up there everywhere is able to be walked. Apart from about 100 yards of beach in only 2-3 months a year. Not exactly a major inconvenience to humans is it.

Nearly every year the terns have managed to be successful on the Ayres (apart from a few due to poor weather) Its something the Isle of Man people should be proud of and look after, not try to destroy.

[CJW]

I remember that in the 70's it was a popular camping spot for Manx families in summer. People who often could not afford holidays off the island but enjoyed the nature and natural beauty on their doorstep.

I don’t know the exact figures, but I expect the population of the island back in the 70’s (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean 1970’s – despite the apparent senility of your thinking indicating the previous century) was considerably less than it is today. Why can’t you people understand that an increase in population (be it a good or bad thing) brings with it an increase in pressure on areas like the Ayres?

 

My family has very precious memories of summers spent there admiring, respecting and also protecting the very aspects of nature which you now feel that only yourself and other eco warriors are capable of saving.

At what point have I said that “only I and other Eco Warriers are capable of saving” anything? This is typical of the approach some people adopt when using a forum. They read the words and completely fail to understand them. They then go on to use phrases like Eco-warrier and Twitcher in a context further illustrating a complete lack of understanding of the subject. Do you people (and this is aimed at those who use the terms) even know what a twitcher or EcoWarrier is? And why they are completely the wrong terms to use?

 

The Ayres area was taken over and designated a nature reserve by government. Many previously enjoyed activities are now restricted and it is now obviously regarded as a private little empire for people like yourself , who have the self belief, that they know what is best for both for man and nature.

Here we go again. “People like me” - as with the previous person who used this particularly inappropriate generalisation, you know very little about me that’s relevant to this discussion.

I do not want the Ayres to be “a private little empire”. Instead I would prefer that more people used it in a responsible manner, as laid down in law – this would enable the uneducated (I think finger-pointing would be unnecessary at this stage) to understand a little more about the place and it’s inhabitants.

 

We have a obligation as humans not to destroy our enviroment with pollution.

We also have the right to coexist with other species on this earth without being denied direct contact with them.

I’m not sure what “direct contact” you’re referring to here and I’m finding it difficult to avoid the opportunity to make a sheep-worrying joke.

 

The Ayres belong to the people of the Isle of Man.

Not to a chosen few.

Agreed. How the people of the IoM use the area is what is at issue not its ownership.

[Jimcalagon]

There are very few, if any, people on the island who know more about the breeding habits of the birds on the Ayres NNR than I.

 

You are Bill Oddie and I claim my five pounds.

 

I understand that one of these birds is believed to have been infected with avian flu and the DAFF has got to drug each one individually so that they can be tested for it.

 

But rest assured, in their search for the virus they will leave no tern unstoned.

[Pat Ayres]

[

[Jimcalagon]

The Terns existed long before humans did.

 

Really? Can you point to the earliest dated fossil of a recognisable 'modern' Tern, as opposed to a Tern-Like creature?

 

Also you say that humans shouldnt change nature. That is correct they shouldnt. If the race went ahead humans would have changed the natural ecosystem.

 

So a couple of dozen blokes riding bikes past some terns ONCE will 'change the natural ecosystem'? This incredible 'ecosystem' which has been there since before humans evolved (supposedly - despite the fact that the northern plain is only about 8-10,000 years old) and has survived thousands of gales, thousands of years of human inhabitation etc. cant survive one instance of some bikes riding a hundred yards away?

 

Nearly every year the terns have managed to be successful on the Ayres (apart from a few due to poor weather) Its something the Isle of Man people should be proud of and look after, not try to destroy.

 

No-one is 'trying to destroy' anything. From what I can gather, previous events have involved similar numbers of riders using this beach and yet, incredibly, there is still a 'natural ecosystem' there. How can this happen if, as you and others here contend, allowing this to happen once will wipe out the whole breeding population of terns.

 

I'm not a biker (never having even sat on a bike) and have no particular axe to grind. I won't be going to see this 'event' and have no real interest in it. I am certainly not in favour of 'destroying' any 'natural; ecosystem' but I would like to see a sense of proportion here

 

What I think has got peoples' backs up here is the unnecessarily hysterical tone employed by the self-proclaimed 'defenders of the earth' on this thread. Trying to equate half an hour of people riding bikes in the distance (below the high-water line where there are normally massive breakers crashing) is not the equivalent of building a nuclear reprocessing plant or open-cast lead mine there.

[Albert Tatlock]

The Terns existed long before humans did.

 

Really? Can you point to the earliest dated fossil of a recognisable 'modern' Tern, as opposed to a Tern-Like creature?

Dinosaurs became the birds we see today. Even if humans were around then, no-one would have f**ked around with a 60ft tall, 30-tonne pissed off 'Tern' in those days.

[Jimcalagon]

The Terns existed long before humans did.

 

Really? Can you point to the earliest dated fossil of a recognisable 'modern' Tern, as opposed to a Tern-Like creature?

Dinosaurs became the birds we see today. Even if humans were around then, no-one would have f**ked around with a 60ft tall, 30-tonne pissed off 'Tern' in those days.

 

Ah, but that's like saying humans were about 30 million years ago because we have found fossil primates.

 

Anyway, I'd like someone to show me a 'natural ecosystem' on the IOM (or anywhere else in Britain come to think of it) - The British isles today are the product of 10,000 years of human deforestation and farming.

 

Anyone familiar with the term biological term 'climax community' (get your minds out of the gutter) will know that the natural state of most of these islands is a dense oak forest, not rolling moors, fields etc. If you are interested in a 'natural ecosystem' the two things you need to ban right away are sheep and cats.

 

(And I'm always annoyed by the self-appointed eco-warriors who have cats - surely the worst thing for British wildlife - for pets.)

[CJW]

So a couple of dozen blokes riding bikes past some terns ONCE will 'change the natural ecosystem'? This incredible 'ecosystem' which has been there since before humans evolved (supposedly - despite the fact that the northern plain is only about 8-10,000 years old) and has survived thousands of gales, thousands of years of human inhabitation etc. cant survive one instance of some bikes riding a hundred yards away?

 

 

 

I'm not a biker (never having even sat on a bike) and have no particular axe to grind. I won't be going to see this 'event' and have no real interest in it. I am certainly not in favour of 'destroying' any 'natural; ecosystem' but I would like to see a sense of proportion here

 

What I think has got peoples' backs up here is the unnecessarily hysterical tone employed by the self-proclaimed 'defenders of the earth' on this thread. Trying to equate half an hour of people riding bikes in the distance (below the high-water line where there are normally massive breakers crashing) is not the equivalent of building a nuclear reprocessing plant or open-cast lead mine there.

 

1. A hundred yards??? The birds' nests and their young are seldom more than 10 yds above the high water mark. The young are also usually creched away from the dunes and between the high water mark and the water's edge- directly in the intended paths of the motorcycles. These creched young cannot fly out of the way.

2. A sense of proportion? You go on to refer to "massive breakers" being the norm - which it clearly isn't. In summer the best it could be described as having (at low tide) is a slight rolling surf (as dictated by the gently sloping beach).

3. I don't think anyone has been "unnecessarily hysterical" not even those disagreeing with the conservationists - with the exception of you who has used inaccuracies throughout your post.

[spanna]

So a couple of dozen blokes riding bikes past some terns ONCE will 'change the natural ecosystem'? This incredible 'ecosystem' which has been there since before humans evolved (supposedly - despite the fact that the northern plain is only about 8-10,000 years old) and has survived thousands of gales, thousands of years of human inhabitation etc. cant survive one instance of some bikes riding a hundred yards away?

ffs.

Read my post again before going off on a rant jim.

I said terns existed before man. Correct.

I also said there terns would have been breeding on the ayres before man was farming there. Also correct.

Not anywhere did I say the ecosystem of terns on the ayres has been there before humans evolved. As you mention the northern plain is relatively new due to some of the Ice ages retreats.

The point again, is the little tern colony is extremely fragile, if 30 humans go near it in one go (remember terns will class humans as a threat.. not like a crashing wave.. ) they will abandon the site.

This occured a few years ago in the UK on one of the biggest little tern colonies in britain. They got disturbed overnight, the next day the whole colony abandoned and never returned.

Im not a eco mentalist or anything of the sort but I like common sense to prevail. Making the bikes use the road instead of the beach means the chance of destroying the little tern colony is gone.

I cannot see the peoples issues against that at all.

 

 

ps your correct about cats though.

[Jimcalagon]

The point again, is the little tern colony is extremely fragile, if 30 humans go near it in one go (remember terns will class humans as a threat.. not like a crashing wave.. ) they will abandon the site.

This occured a few years ago in the UK on one of the biggest little tern colonies in britain. They got disturbed overnight, the next day the whole colony abandoned and never returned.

 

So answer this question that I previously asked then...

 

From what I can gather, previous events have involved similar numbers of riders using this beach and yet, incredibly, there is still a 'natural ecosystem' there. How can this happen if, as you and others here contend, allowing this to happen once will wipe out the whole breeding population of terns.

[CJW]

So answer this question that I previously asked then...

 

From what I can gather, previous events have involved similar numbers of riders using this beach and yet, incredibly, there is still a 'natural ecosystem' there. How can this happen if, as you and others here contend, allowing this to happen once will wipe out the whole breeding population of terns.

 

I hope spanna doesn't mind me jumping in here but, to the best of my knowledge, previous events have never occurred on the beach of the NNR during this sensitive time.

I personally don't have a problem with the event being rescheduled to take place in any of the other 9 months of the year that the birds aren't breeding.

[Ronague Ram]

QUOTE (Jimcalagon @ Jul 2 2008, 01:29 PM)

So answer this question that I previously asked then...

 

 

It is a risk the terns may abandon the nesting and young - not a certainty - not likely even a probable. Is it right though to insist on this route near to this sensitive area along a foreshore (not exactly a m/cycle challenge) during the breeding season of this relatively uncommon and potentially declining species? Motorcycles are considerably louder than walkers, anglers and even barking dogs and children playing. I dare say that if this went ahead you would not find any birds in the area once the first bikes pass until some time after the last bike. Motorcycles have been restricted from the area for a reason. This is an Island, but surely not that small that other areas cannot be used during certain periods for certain reasons. Motorsport can be great entertainment to the competitor and spectator alike - you wouldn't route it through an equestrian centre so why object so strongly when it is pointed out that the sensitivity of this area requires a re-routing (not cancellation of the event) at this time of the year?

[Jimcalagon]

QUOTE (Jimcalagon @ Jul 2 2008, 01:29 PM)

So answer this question that I previously asked then...

 

 

It is a risk the terns may abandon the nesting and young - not a certainty - not likely even a probable. Is it right though to insist on this route near to this sensitive area along a foreshore (not exactly a m/cycle challenge) during the breeding season of this relatively uncommon and potentially declining species? Motorcycles are considerably louder than walkers, anglers and even barking dogs and children playing. I dare say that if this went ahead you would not find any birds in the area once the first bikes pass until some time after the last bike. Motorcycles have been restricted from the area for a reason. This is an Island, but surely not that small that other areas cannot be used during certain periods for certain reasons. Motorsport can be great entertainment to the competitor and spectator alike - you wouldn't route it through an equestrian centre so why object so strongly when it is pointed out that the sensitivity of this area requires a re-routing (not cancellation of the event) at this time of the year?

 

Fair enough - as I said, I have no axe to grind on this particular matter. I don't mind people trying to protect the environment, it's just the shrill tone of certain types that gets my back up (I have at least one close relative who is a holier-than-thou eco-freak).

 

And despite the previous denials, some of the 'pro-tern' postings on here have sounded hysterical in tone (and horribly self-aggrandizing at some points).