David Cameron Tells The Fat And The Poor: Take Responsibility

[bluemonday]

Clicky

[When Skies Are Grey]

“Of course, circumstances — where you are born, your neighbourhood, your school and the choices your parents make — have a huge impact. But social problems are often the consequence of the choices people make.”

 

Or could it read....

 

"...social problems are often the consequences that politicians make"....

 

Trying telling those in the former steel, pit and motor industry communities that they only have themselves to blame.....

 

Fucking sanctimonious cnut.....

[Albert Tatlock]

That's just as useful as telling thick people they should be cleverer. People only learn and do what they pick up from their parents, peers, school, and the media. Education in the (compulsory) education system on these issues is the real answer IMO - which is failing to deliver.

 

Besides you have to have poor people in our system, as where would all the rich people get their money from otherwise?

 

Just more rhetoric when you analyse it.

[When Skies Are Grey]

I think he was feeling sorry for Brown and decided that he would come across as much as a fuckwit as him with is "save food and fuel" suggestions....

[Cronky]

Just more rhetoric when you analyse it.

 

Hmmm. Probably means that he will be cutting public services and some of the 900,000 plus non jobs created by New Labour.

[yehyehyeh]

there must be a good future leader out there somewhere surely?

[mollag]

In a conscious shift of strategy, the Tory leader said he would not shirk from discussing public morality and claimed that social problems were often the consequence of individuals’ choices. [/b

A politician commenting on public morals?, how about he discusssed politicians morals. ffs thieves and liars---and thats just the cabinet.

Time has come to get rid of these hypocritical lying bastards, they really are the pits.

[triskelion]

A politician commenting on public morals?, how about he discusssed politicians morals. ffs thieves and liars---and thats just the cabinet. Time has come to get rid of these hypocritical lying bastards, they really are the pits.

They're no different to the rest of humanity.

[Grianane]

In a conscious shift of strategy, the Tory leader said he would not shirk from discussing public morality and claimed that social problems were often the consequence of individuals’ choices.

 

actually I think he has a point, although it may be unpalatable to be heard I actually know a number of people whose medical conditions and life circumstances are clearly a result of their own conscious actions - these aren't cases of the helpless or the ill but normal and intelligent people who have just done what they want and denied the potential consequences until they have unfortunately hit.

 

I suppose the question is should help be available to those who wouldn't help themselves, and it follows should the state [taxpayers] pay to sort out the mess people have put themselves in - that is more of a political dilemna.

[Albert Tatlock]

I suppose the question is should help be available to those who wouldn't help themselves, and it follows should the state [taxpayers] pay to sort out the mess people have put themselves in - that is more of a political dilemna.

But where is the line for this approach to be drawn? - for example for my kids when they were at school, a) I wanted them to be educated about the dangers of certain dietry or lifestyle choices and b) educated to a standard where they could improve their prospects and not be poor. Not all children listen to their parents, and not all parents have the skills to give the right advice - but the one place all children have to face such advice/lectures is the compulsory education system - and therein lies the answer IMO.

 

However, in a liberal democracy I don't want the state to then restrict me (or them) should I be forced down, or even choose, the unfashionable 'non-state' route. The fact is people adopt various lifestyles for a variety of reasons, which can be down to poor education, not listening, divorce, bad luck, health and numerous other factors. Moreover, someone always has to be poor when you think of the system we actually live and work under - it's simple economics.

 

IMO much of the rhetroic we have heard over the last ten years is all about state social engineering, trying to get the people to fit the model of the NHS and not vice-versa - it's actually about money - not individualism or genuine care for other individuals. The danger is we are letting politicians take control of too many areas of our lives, instead of them using the education system to educate us - whilst keeping their beaks out of the rest.

[Jimcalagon]

If only the poor could vote themselves massive pay rises like MPS and claim expenses for everything then they would be sorted. So it's their own fault for not being politicians.

[Grianane]

I would agree we need a much more robust and authoritarian education system with a requirement for all to be coached in basic life skills. I'd be quite happy for my kids to be taught about diets, cooking , housework and even basic DIY to prepare them for the big wide world if thats the only way they'll learn - hopefully they'll pick some of that up from their parents but there's no reason why the schools shouldn't do some also.

 

The problem is education seems to be hell bent on achieving qualifications when it should also focus on equiping kids for life and instilling some level of social responsibility and sense of community.

 

What's fairly obvious is that there's a good number of parents out there who don't really pay much attention to their kids, dare I say you could probably pick the future chav's out from the rest by just looking at who drops them off at school on their first day. The only chance these kids really have is if the education system is strong enough to keep them in it and is focused on providing the sort of skills and knowledge that other parents would provide, either that or its back to national service...

[Jimcalagon]

I'd be quite happy for my kids to be taught about diets, cooking , housework and even basic DIY to prepare them for the big wide world if thats the only way they'll learn - hopefully they'll pick some of that up from their parents but there's no reason why the schools shouldn't do some also.

 

My children get taught that at home. The problem nowadays is that (certain) people expect schools to teach the kids everything, including how to speak sometimes, and take no responsibility for anything beyond feeding, clothing and buying XBoxes for their kids.

[Albert Tatlock]

My children get taught that at home. The problem nowadays is that (certain) people expect schools to teach the kids everything, including how to speak sometimes, and take no responsibility for anything beyond feeding, clothing and buying XBoxes for their kids.

The Chav's Children

 

A chav shags many-drinking-men,

Picked up where chavs do go,

Their names are

Frank and Dave and Ken

and nine they never know.

[mollag]

Just for the exercise, no idea how this will bounce---If we say that 75% of high school children leave at say 16 into employment and 25% go on to higher education.

What percentage of resources are spent on preparing the 75% for the employee world, compared to the resources spent on the 25% who go on to higher education.?

Is the division of resources fair?

Could more be done to help the majority leavers prepare for the world of work?

 

No axe to grind here