Ramsey Pier To Be Demolished?

[manxy]

The right money spent on the right things could change the whole ethos of the town, move the 'money' away from hoi poloi of Douglas and the Call Centre brigade and capitalise on a beautiful harbour area, high quality Tynwald Mills stlye reinvention of the shopping area, less Chippies serving the Manx National Dish of Chips and gravy and more exclusive accommodation. Unfortunatly, the people running Ramsey are pretty low class luddites who see any opportuniy for change as a sign of the degredation of society. Until those who elect them, locally AND nationally, realise this then the town is doomed.

 

A personal angle regarding this.

 

Some weeks ago, I had some people over. Whilst at Ramsey, I was persuaded by one of them, whose opinion I respect, to consider including Ramsey in a new project I'm working up and was discussing with him ( one or two people on here are aware of the nature of this, it's in a very early stage but is now progressing and has been well received by an MHK, A Minister and a gov department )

 

After mulling it over, I attempted to make an initial contact with RTC.

 

All I wanted was a simple contact point. Just someone to generally discuss the proposal with and get basic feedback from prior to even thinking about taking it any further as regards Ramsey.

 

I've had nothing back.

 

Not even an acknowledgement.

 

edit to add.

It wouldn't have cost them anything ( apart from a few minutes time ) and it wouldn't even have cost them anything when it is up and running.

I hope you get somewhere with the RTC and would like to know how you get on.

 

A couple of things I'd like to see and mentioned in previous posts;

A small cafe that is built on the pier (near entrance)

Either a hovercraft or ferry route from Ramsey to a place in Scotland. (weather permitting)

A large multi purpose indoor activity center/combined with historic theme on Ramsey. that can include exhibitions, business meeting areas, child to teenager activity areas etc, etc....(you can make the rest up) IMO, this would be ideally suitable, especially when the weather is not so good, so at least 10% of the year then.

I suppose there's always an alternative and that's to get the consultants in

[VinnieK]

It seems very unlikely that the next five years will see the level of immigration the previous five have; what with the global downturn and all. I'm not actually clear on what Ramsey has going for it as the Island's 'second town.' Its mostly residential at the minute, with a tiny bit of industry and lot of small shops.

 

The difficulty is that Ramsey, although the largest town outside of the Douglas/Onchan area, doesn't have much in the way of nearby communities to support that much redevelopment. 78% of the population is concentrated in the South of the Island (if we take it to consist of Rushen, Middle and Glenfaba), just over 62,000 people. This rises even more when you consider that a significant proportion of the population of Garff (i.e. Laxey) is closer than or as close to Douglas as they are Ramsey, pushing that figure up to about 80%. That's a pretty healthy population to support the kind of facilities found in small towns and cities around the UK, so I don't see why it should be seen as unfair that somewhere like Douglas, being the main settlement in the area should receive the lion's share of investment and facilities (since it's also within reasonable distance of the large majority of the population).

 

Given this, it's hard to see how Ramsey could ever become a thriving commercial town. Things like the development of St John's work because it's in a very good position, Ramsey, on the other hand, is way out on the outskirts, as it has been for a long time and will be for the foreseeable future. Even if Ramsey's population doubled and the rest of the Island's stayed at the same levels they are now, the Southern communities would still account for over 70% of the population and it's doubtful that the North's population would be able to sustain the kinds of businesses and facilities that would regularly draw in the people from further afield necessary to make it grow and thrive.

 

Now that's not a criticism of Ramsey as a place to live, or an argument that it shouldn't receive appropriate levels of investment, but I don't see how it's ever going to be "the Island's second town" in anything other than name and raw population numbers of the town itself, or why we should aim to change this.

[triskelion]

Argh, not the 'Deparment relocation' myth again. There are simply too few people working in areas that could be reasonably moved to make it worthwhile, or to make much difference to the local economies.

 

So you keep telling us. How many are there exactly? I presume you must now with a fairly high degree of precision because otherwise how could you make these very confident pronouncements with such regularity?

The Little Pink Book details how many people are employed in each division.

 

Normally I would take the time to give you a run-down, but I can't right this minute.

[bluemonday]

I hope you get somewhere with the RTC and would like to know how you get on.

 

Snappy pmed me a direct contact, hopefully that should work.

 

Either a hovercraft or ferry route from Ramsey to a place in Scotland. (weather permitting)

 

I reckon thats a fine idea idea. Hovercraft won't need that much in the way of site provison ( assuming it bunkers the other side ) and won't be reliant on tidal access.

Be a nice summer trip.

[Tugger]

Argh, not the 'Deparment relocation' myth again. There are simply too few people working in areas that could be reasonably moved to make it worthwhile, or to make much difference to the local economies.

 

So you keep telling us. How many are there exactly? I presume you must now with a fairly high degree of precision because otherwise how could you make these very confident pronouncements with such regularity?

The Little Pink Book details how many people are employed in each division.

 

Normally I would take the time to give you a run-down, but I can't right this minute.

 

That's alright, I don't mind waiting

[cheeky boy]

I presume you live in the never never neverland of the government salary, that is never having to make a profit, never having to run an efficient organisation and never having to worry about where your wages or pension will come from

 

I have to work long and hard to generate income for the government, and whilst I realise that taxation is necessary to pay for the services we all need, I resent my efforts being spunked away on needless projects and crap management

 

Next time you take a (paid) holiday try going somewhere you've never been before

 

Like the real world

Oh don't be so pathetic.

 

 

I'll take that as a yes then

[cheeky boy]

Normally I would take the time to give you a run-down, but I can't right this minute.

 

 

Should think not

 

What is it you are supposed to be doing in the middle of the afternoon ?

 

Or does your job description include: "dicking about on the internet during working hours ?"

[ponderer]

The Times yesterday was more upbeat:

 

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle4349958.ece

 

Thanks for pointing it out. A really interesting article with some creative ideas - spa pier, extreme sports pier etc.

 

But I don't think it provides a strong case for investing in Ramsey pier rather than something which will interact more with the local economy - like a well designed Marina.

 

As the article says the key is a 'killer business plan'. It goes on "Get the right attractions, and the right design, and you have a gold-mine. Get it wrong and you’ve a very, very expensive white elephant"

 

Has anybody got close to a 'killer business plan' for Queens Pier yet? I don't think so.

 

It also says...

 

..."Piers of course, being suspended halfway between salty, stormy sea and gusty wind, are not cheap structures to maintain, so if their revival is going to be successful anywhere it’s in gentrified places such as Southwold, Bournemouth and Rimini, where the middle-class seaside revival is in full swing"..

 

Absolutely. Does anybody seriously think this describes Ramsey in 2008?

 

By all means bring in some of these creative companies to take a look at Ramsey. Atomik Architecture (great name!)... Urban Splash and the like. Fly over some people from Norman Foster's or Frank Gehry's businesses if you like. They all have reputations to defend and I remain very sceptical that they would put their reputations behind vast investment in renovating Queens over a Marina for Ramsey.

[homarus]

I presume you live in the never never neverland of the government salary, that is never having to make a profit, never having to run an efficient organisation and never having to worry about where your wages or pension will come from

 

I have to work long and hard to generate income for the government, and whilst I realise that taxation is necessary to pay for the services we all need, I resent my efforts being spunked away on needless projects and crap management

 

Next time you take a (paid) holiday try going somewhere you've never been before

 

Like the real world

Oh don't be so pathetic.

 

 

I'll take that as a yes then

 

As you can see "Triskellion" the boy has got a hide like a Rhino,you really are going to have to improve 100% on your insults !!

[Max Power]

The Times yesterday was more upbeat:

 

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle4349958.ece

 

Thanks for pointing it out. A really interesting article with some creative ideas - spa pier, extreme sports pier etc.

 

But I don't think it provides a strong case for investing in Ramsey pier rather than something which will interact more with the local economy - like a well designed Marina.

 

As the article says the key is a 'killer business plan'. It goes on "Get the right attractions, and the right design, and you have a gold-mine. Get it wrong and you’ve a very, very expensive white elephant"

 

Has anybody got close to a 'killer business plan' for Queens Pier yet? I don't think so.

 

It also says...

 

..."Piers of course, being suspended halfway between salty, stormy sea and gusty wind, are not cheap structures to maintain, so if their revival is going to be successful anywhere it’s in gentrified places such as Southwold, Bournemouth and Rimini, where the middle-class seaside revival is in full swing"..

 

Absolutely. Does anybody seriously think this describes Ramsey in 2008?

 

 

 

By all means bring in some of these creative companies to take a look at Ramsey. Atomik Architecture (great name!)... Urban Splash and the like. Fly over some people from Norman Foster's or Frank Gehry's businesses if you like. They all have reputations to defend and I remain very sceptical that they would put their reputations behind vast investment in renovating Queens over a Marina for Ramsey.

A very good point!

 

It could be a bit of a 'Dragon's Den' scenario.

Ramsey stands in the den looking for investment from the Dragons for it's crackpot schemes and ends up going red faced down the stairs after a damn good beating with the reality stick!

 

Unfortunately our politicians will let this rumble along until the pier crumbles into the sea. Perhaps it is a shame that the pier has been neglected for so long, but I seem to remember Brighton pier was in a bit of a state for years after a collision and Southend had a struggle to rebuild after a couple of fires. These piers are likely to be used by far more people than Ramsey ever has or ever will be!

 

I'm afraid I don't see much future in the pier as a means to rejuvenating the fortunes of Ramsey. Certainly in view of the costs involved.

[triskelion]

Govt Employees in admin-ey roles (fte):

 

DAFF - 9.6

DoE - 49.8

DHSS - Difficult to establish due to departmental structure, but core services employs 104.9.

DHA - 18

DTL - 50 (Includes tourism division 21.8)

Dti - Again, difficult to determine. Total is 89.50, but some (eg those involved with training, grants etc.) of them will be engaged directly with the public, which would suggest keeping those role in Douglas

DoT - 42

Treasury - Probably all 333 or so could be moved, though for commercial reasons these would probably best be kept close to the financial centre in Douglas.

 

How 'moveable' these are is unclear, but I've tried to give as accurate numbers as possible based on the break-down in the Little Pink Book. How advantageous to efficient Government moving them would be is also up for debate.

[manxy]

Govt Employees in admin-ey roles (fte):

 

DAFF - 9.6

DoE - 49.8

DHSS - Difficult to establish due to departmental structure, but core services employs 104.9.

DHA - 18

DTL - 50 (Includes tourism division 21.8)

Dti - Again, difficult to determine. Total is 89.50, but some (eg those involved with training, grants etc.) of them will be engaged directly with the public, which would suggest keeping those role in Douglas

DoT - 42

Treasury - Probably all 333 or so could be moved, though for commercial reasons these would probably best be kept close to the financial centre in Douglas.

 

How 'moveable' these are is unclear, but I've tried to give as accurate numbers as possible based on the break-down in the Little Pink Book. How advantageous to efficient Government moving them would be is also up for debate.

Wish there was a way of finding out how many people living past the mountain (including Kirk Michael etc, commute to Douglas

Also, wouldn't it br better to have some tax incentives for businesses to move up to the North?

[VinnieK]

Wish there was a way of finding out how many people living past the mountain (including Kirk Michael etc, commute to Douglas

Also, wouldn't it br better to have some tax incentives for businesses to move up to the North?

 

Businesses and shops might find tax incentives attractive, but I don't think it'd be enough to tempt them away in significant numbers from the far larger mass of customers and employees the South offers, especially when they're in a pretty good position regarding tax as it is. The trouble is that Ramsey is (relatively speaking) simply too inconvenient and too far away for most people.

[Langweilig]

Will this proposed demolition of Ramsey pier be a complete demolition or partial? They've left part of Summerland standing and the Villa Marina arcade? They've sodded off and left it unfinished. One of the workers even left a hi-viz jacket as a memorial.

[Pat Ayres]

There isn't a proposal to demolish the pier, partly or completely. That was an option in the weighted questionnaire that went drastically wrong for the government. The great majority of people supported regeneration.

It's just the lazy bastards at Douglas can't see beyond their own garden fence and spend some money outside Douglas for a change.