Ramsey Pier To Be Demolished?

[cheeky boy]

But you'd still be paying the same rate of VAT no matter what they spent it on...

 

I presume you live in the never never neverland of the government salary, that is never having to make a profit, never having to run an efficient organisation and never having to worry about where your wages or pension will come from

 

I have to work long and hard to generate income for the government, and whilst I realise that taxation is necessary to pay for the services we all need, I resent my efforts being spunked away on needless projects and crap management

 

Next time you take a (paid) holiday try going somewhere you've never been before

 

Like the real world

[parchedpeas]

The last weekend was stonking in Ramsey - street party packeted out and enjoyed by all. Party in the park for Alder Hey on sunday was still going after the purple helmets and you couldn't see the promenande for cars. I'm surprised you didn't know about it, the events were well advertised in the papers, radio and on the web.

 

I don't live there anymore, and so I don't know. I really hope so. I really hope that people can see that Ramsey can be an alternative to the capital, for everything, rather than a place to buy a pint of milk on the way home from work. When I lived there, I found more barriers in the way of BIG EVENTS than there was support. Now when i visit, it looks like it has the biggest drink / drugs problem of anywhere I've been.

 

I want to love the Pier, I really do. I want to say that spending £7 Million on it is a great idea, and worth every penny. BUT IT IS NOT. Ramsey is dying on its arse, and £7 Million goes a long, long way.

 

How many people here live in Ramsey and have to commute to Douglas for work? They then spend their excess income in Douglas doing the shopping, buying lunch, meeting friends. How much would £7 MILLION - that is £7,000,000 Mr Tramontana - help towards bringing jobs to Ramsey, and therefore recreating the community that has dissapeared since it became a commuter town?

 

I want a refurbished pier that we can all patronise once a year when it is sunny and we want a drive out. But more than that, if there is £7 million going begging, I want investment in the town that will enable those living there to work there aswell, that will give school leavers a life there beyond working on the bins or for Shoprite (nowt up wth either, but an option that doesn't end in DOUGLAS would be nice). If it is the Marina, then so be it. If it is something else, then lets have that.

 

Because in spite of whatever people think of Ramsey around the Island, the people are GOOD people who want to share in the spoils and the riches of this resurgent Isle of Man PLC. So far, they have been denied because of laziness on their behalf, and because of neglect on behalf of those representing them. Sit in the swimming pool carfe and tell me that they do not have one of the most beautiful bays on the Island. A great framework for business. Lots of eager employess who pay £20 a week on the bus, or £50 a week by car to go and work in DOUGLAS, the most soulless town on the Island.

 

We KNOW most of you don't live there. We KNOW you all think Douglas is the answer to everythng, but in the big scheme of things, Douglas is as bad as anywhere else. The only town worth living in on the Isle of Man is Castletown, in my opinion. Ramsey deserves a chance, it deserves money it has been deprived of for far too long, and moreso it deserves attention from the rest of the Island who ignore it or laugh at it and forget that the people who live there are as keen to see it renovated as anyone else. If the people of Ramsey think that £7 Million on a pier is the answer to their prayers, then let's leave them to it. I fear that unfortunately, they feel it's the only chance they'll ever get anything out of government, and that's why they want it.

 

The question should be: Here's £5 million quid for Ramsey, now what do you want?

[triskelion]

I presume you live in the never never neverland of the government salary, that is never having to make a profit, never having to run an efficient organisation and never having to worry about where your wages or pension will come from

 

I have to work long and hard to generate income for the government, and whilst I realise that taxation is necessary to pay for the services we all need, I resent my efforts being spunked away on needless projects and crap management

 

Next time you take a (paid) holiday try going somewhere you've never been before

 

Like the real world

Oh don't be so pathetic.

[ai_Droid]

But you'd still be paying the same rate of VAT no matter what they spent it on...

 

I think the point is, we don't mind paying taxes if they bring value for money. And most of cheeky boys list doesn't seem like value for money.

 

Let the thing fall into the sea for all I care, it's an old victorian monstrocity that belongs in the past. You want to relive the grandure? Look at a picture.

[jimbms]

The only town worth living in on the Isle of Man is Castletown, in my opinion.

Bolloxs it's not got a decent chippy

[Fossils]

IDEA!

If we can have some land ripe for property development placed at the end of the Queen's Pier then the traditional brown envelopes (coupled with a winning promise of first-time buyers' houses) will pay for the Pier to be restored.

 

Think of it as an airport runway extension infill. That was easily arranged, despite the fact that it isn't really necessary. The cheaper option would have been to extend the runway towards Pulsom Park and reroute the road via Cross-Fourways to a new Ballasalla Bypass.

 

If the Government had put all the cash that they've spent over the years in thinking about the Pier (and the cash that has been lost through dithering whilst costs rise) the Queen's Pier would be looking great, and appreciated by thousands.

 

I have just been reading about recent pier restorations in the UK. Most have had Lottery grants.

 

............and Southport seems to be doing OK with plans:

 

 

 

Winter 2001

 

Southport Pier

Article by David Knowles, Chairman Southport Pier Trust.

 

 

 

The Campaign

 

The campaign to Save Southport Pier was launched in February 1991 when a group of enthusiasts came together to start fund raising. By 1994 Sefton Council and Sefton Chamber of Commerce and Industry had formed the Southport Pier Trust (SPT).

 

By 1999, Sefton Council and the Pier Trust had been successful in obtaining significant financial support from both the Heritage Lottery Fund and from the European Merseyside Objective 1 Programme to place a contract for the restoration work.

 

History

 

Artist impression of Southport PierSouthport Pier is the oldest remaining pleasure pier, constructed in 1860, and the second longest pier in Britain. During its lifetime it has suffered the ravages of fire, partial collapse, pavilions have been built and rebuilt. The first decline of the Pier occurred in 1923 when the last paddle steamer service from North Wales ceased. Southport Pier was listed as a Grade 2 building in 1976 as a structure of special architectural and historic interest. Later with the growth of foreign holidays, Southport along with its pier went into decline. The pier was closed to the public in 1998 for safety reasons.

 

The first phase of restoration

 

Artist impression of Interpretation CentreSouthport Pier is being restored in two phases; the £6 million first phase involves the complete restoration or replacement of all the components of the pier up to deck level as it was in 1860/1864. The tram track has been relocated down the centre of the pier to reflect the original position of the track in 1863 and a tram interchange station has been constructed at the crossing of the pier with Marine Drive. The pier deck has been widened to give more effective usage by pedestrians. In addition, the shell of the new modern pavilion, or Interpretation Centre, has been constructed. This center will display information on the local history and wildlife.

 

The second phase of restoration

 

In order to complete the restoration there are an additional ten projects to be undertaken; they are:

 

Complete plank sponsorship campaign <LI>Fit out interpretation centre and restaurant <LI>Provide tram <LI>Provide beacon & proposed communications mast <LI>Install deck lighting over whole length of pier <LI>Repair and restore two Victorian shelters <LI>Fit out the old engine house into a facility for SPT <LI>Provide necessary security facilities <LI>Replace tram station at pier entrance <LI>Provide new entrance to the pier

 

The Southport Pier Trust, working closely with Sefton Council, is currently developing the costed designs for these projects. The best present estimate of the total cost of Phase 2 is about £2 million.

 

Artist impression of Communications MastThe key project is the fitting out of the interpretation centre and the restaurant. This will promote the local heritage and natural environment of the Sefton Coast and the pier. Other elements being investigated are energy, radio communications and information technology. It is intended that the restored pier will be managed and operated under a 25 year lease from Sefton Council. In anticipation of this, SPT has launched a major fund raising campaign and so far has raised nearly a quarter of a million pounds. This has been achieved mainly from the successful Plank Sponsorship Campaign and from a proposed provision of a communication mast.

[Tugger]

I'd be more than happy to see government departments moved to Ramsey, but I don't want to pay extra mileage so that grasping government employees can make even more contributions to their oversized pension pot.

 

Seriously, tell them they're moving. I imagine that in most cases, if they went on strike, nobody would notice. Better evidence of redundancy is hard to come by

[Grianane]

"The question should be: Here's £5 million quid for Ramsey, now what do you want?"

 

as a national monument the question is one which actually shouldn't be put at all. Does Laxey pay for the Wheel, does Castletown pay for Castle Rushen and does Douglas pay for the Museum, of course not so why should Ramsey have to pay for the Pier. The overwhelming view of residents is that it should be restored and yet TYnwald members are p*ssing round with further delaying tactics.

 

Interestingly the STANDING COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC INITIATIVES report is out. It highlights the response to the deep water berth problem for cruise ships and the need to develop commuter trains to reduce oil and transport costs. Reponses to both these problems revolve around Douglas, why wasn't the Queens Pier considered for the berth and why isn't the generation of office accommodation (how about a Government Department) and some incentives for firms to be in Ramsey provided.

 

There is a need for balance here, IMO there is no way I would wish Ramsey to turn into a Douglas, and whatever is done needs to build on the community which exists and not decentralise the town centre which is what has happened in Douglas. Concentrate on employemnt and tidying up the shopping area and quay and I don't think the town will go far wrong.

[Tugger]

The overwhelming view of residents is that it should be restored and yet TYnwald members are p*ssing round with further delaying tactics.

 

Nobody asked me

[Fossils]

IDEA!

If we can have some land ripe for property development placed at the end of the Queen's Pier then the traditional brown envelopes (coupled with a winning promise of first-time buyers' houses) will pay for the Pier to be restored.

 

Think of it as an airport runway extension infill. That was easily arranged, despite the fact that it isn't really necessary. The cheaper option would have been to extend the runway towards Pulsom Park and reroute the road via Cross-Fourways to a new Ballasalla Bypass.

 

If the Government had put all the cash that they've spent over the years in thinking about the Pier (and the cash that has been lost through dithering whilst costs rise) the Queen's Pier would be looking great, and appreciated by thousands.

 

I have just been reading about recent pier restorations in the UK. Most have had Lottery grants.

 

............and Southport seems to be doing OK with plans:

 

 

 

Winter 2001

 

Southport Pier

Article by David Knowles, Chairman Southport Pier Trust.

 

 

 

The Campaign

 

The campaign to Save Southport Pier was launched in February 1991 when a group of enthusiasts came together to start fund raising. By 1994 Sefton Council and Sefton Chamber of Commerce and Industry had formed the Southport Pier Trust (SPT).

 

By 1999, Sefton Council and the Pier Trust had been successful in obtaining significant financial support from both the Heritage Lottery Fund and from the European Merseyside Objective 1 Programme to place a contract for the restoration work.

 

History

 

Artist impression of Southport PierSouthport Pier is the oldest remaining pleasure pier, constructed in 1860, and the second longest pier in Britain. During its lifetime it has suffered the ravages of fire, partial collapse, pavilions have been built and rebuilt. The first decline of the Pier occurred in 1923 when the last paddle steamer service from North Wales ceased. Southport Pier was listed as a Grade 2 building in 1976 as a structure of special architectural and historic interest. Later with the growth of foreign holidays, Southport along with its pier went into decline. The pier was closed to the public in 1998 for safety reasons.

 

The first phase of restoration

 

Artist impression of Interpretation CentreSouthport Pier is being restored in two phases; the £6 million first phase involves the complete restoration or replacement of all the components of the pier up to deck level as it was in 1860/1864. The tram track has been relocated down the centre of the pier to reflect the original position of the track in 1863 and a tram interchange station has been constructed at the crossing of the pier with Marine Drive. The pier deck has been widened to give more effective usage by pedestrians. In addition, the shell of the new modern pavilion, or Interpretation Centre, has been constructed. This center will display information on the local history and wildlife.

 

The second phase of restoration

 

In order to complete the restoration there are an additional ten projects to be undertaken; they are:

 

Complete plank sponsorship campaign <LI>Fit out interpretation centre and restaurant <LI>Provide tram <LI>Provide beacon & proposed communications mast <LI>Install deck lighting over whole length of pier <LI>Repair and restore two Victorian shelters <LI>Fit out the old engine house into a facility for SPT <LI>Provide necessary security facilities <LI>Replace tram station at pier entrance <LI>Provide new entrance to the pier

 

The Southport Pier Trust, working closely with Sefton Council, is currently developing the costed designs for these projects. The best present estimate of the total cost of Phase 2 is about £2 million.

 

Artist impression of Communications MastThe key project is the fitting out of the interpretation centre and the restaurant. This will promote the local heritage and natural environment of the Sefton Coast and the pier. Other elements being investigated are energy, radio communications and information technology. It is intended that the restored pier will be managed and operated under a 25 year lease from Sefton Council. In anticipation of this, SPT has launched a major fund raising campaign and so far has raised nearly a quarter of a million pounds. This has been achieved mainly from the successful Plank Sponsorship Campaign and from a proposed provision of a communication mast.

 

Thread reappiers........

[GD4ELI]

Toomy and Eric can supply a plank.

 

[Jimcalagon]

Toomy and Eric can supply a plank.

 

 

No need - we've got enough planks on the Isle of Man; most of them post on this forum

[triskelion]

"The question should be: Here's £5 million quid for Ramsey, now what do you want?"

 

as a national monument the question is one which actually shouldn't be put at all. Does Laxey pay for the Wheel, does Castletown pay for Castle Rushen and does Douglas pay for the Museum, of course not so why should Ramsey have to pay for the Pier. The overwhelming view of residents is that it should be restored and yet TYnwald members are p*ssing round with further delaying tactics.

 

Interestingly the STANDING COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC INITIATIVES report is out. It highlights the response to the deep water berth problem for cruise ships and the need to develop commuter trains to reduce oil and transport costs. Reponses to both these problems revolve around Douglas, why wasn't the Queens Pier considered for the berth and why isn't the generation of office accommodation (how about a Government Department) and some incentives for firms to be in Ramsey provided.

 

There is a need for balance here, IMO there is no way I would wish Ramsey to turn into a Douglas, and whatever is done needs to build on the community which exists and not decentralise the town centre which is what has happened in Douglas. Concentrate on employemnt and tidying up the shopping area and quay and I don't think the town will go far wrong.

The overwhelming of view of respondees to the survey said they wanted the pier restored, which is not quite the referendum the friends of the pier are claiming it to be. The pier is hardly a national monument, and the other historical sights you mention have a kind of attached 'experience' to them. Nothing similar has been devised by anyone who wants the pier to remain so bad.

 

As for the deep water berth: The pontoon is Douglas will cost what was it, £500 000? To restore the pier would cost 10-14 times that amount, without the advantages as a port Douglas has in terms of facilities for visitors.

 

It seems strange that you then say all the town needs is a tidy centre and more jobs; neither of which will be provided by the pier.

 

Tugger: The moving of Departmental administration out of Douglas is neither advantageous or desirable. They make up a tiny minority of staff, and so are unlikely to do much to regenerate their new areas.

[jehovah]

Experiences;

Laxey wheel, climb a steep stairway and get a decent view over the nearest valley, if lucky get splashed by the water falling to earth. Walk 10 ft down a tunnel with a hard hat on. Cost £3

Camera Obscura; Stand in a glorified garden shed looking at Douglas, upside down and get squinty eyes.

Peel; A bloody good museum with some great exhibits, cost £5

Rushen castle; draughty castle with no windows, walk round the battlements and see the funny farting man on the toilet. Marvel at how kind we were to our fellow man in the 14thC

Nearbyl; Old cottage, old house, old farm buildings, windy headland and expensive cafe. Free except for the coffee.

Worth every penny when put like that.

[manxy]

Experiences;

Laxey wheel, climb a steep stairway and get a decent view over the nearest valley, if lucky get splashed by the water falling to earth. Walk 10 ft down a tunnel with a hard hat on. Cost £3

Camera Obscura; Stand in a glorified garden shed looking at Douglas, upside down and get squinty eyes.

Peel; A bloody good museum with some great exhibits, cost £5

Rushen castle; draughty castle with no windows, walk round the battlements and see the funny farting man on the toilet. Marvel at how kind we were to our fellow man in the 14thC

Nearbyl; Old cottage, old house, old farm buildings, windy headland and expensive cafe. Free except for the coffee.

Worth every penny when put like that.

It sort of puts things into perspective when you start reading through the many posts.

I've always been in favour of the pier, but when Grianane said, "The question should be: Here's £5 million quid for Ramsey, now what do you want?" it sort of made a point to me and as a person always willing to er... listen , then what really, would be the best thing for Ramsey?