crumlin Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 The Local press have stated that the Tender from AWG will be rejected by the design team (Dazza) due to it being £3million over budget, whos budget. It seems that AWGs bid was the lowest and best at first stage tender stage, but its now rumoured that the design team have been in talks with a well known Irish builder behind closed doors after they knew the price of £36 million ( £39 skimed down to£36). If this is true then its dodgy dealing(Irish firm prepared to build for £34 million, (why did they not give this price at first stage tendering ???) The fees charged by the design team have been £3million and if the bid from AWG is rejected then the whole thing has to go out for re tendering, this would produce another £3million in fees. All the subcontract firms that have priced for AWG are rumoured to be all Manx companies, companies that have spent a lot of time and money putting a price together, money they cant get back. If they are to reprice again local subcontractors will try and build the previous costs in to the new tender making their prices higher and so being out of the frame in costs. If the design team employed failed to get the best price this time they should be sacked and a new team employed as its the only way of preventing dodgy dealing. If this project goes off Island we will end up the same way as the other contracts that went off Islands. Firstly the Government would lose out on unseen returns from the final costs, ie NI, Tax and Vat these would all go to the UK and much of the earnings to, decrease in the circulation of our money will happen. On a £36 million contract, a Manx companies would be paying back to the Government maybe 40% of the costs compared with an off Island company paying about 8%. At the Villa, new Hospital. Iris problems occured, local firms not paid, men employed illegally etc and now we have a problem at the Tynwald Buildings, Governement gave the contract to the lowest bidder from Ireland and its now rumoured that this company are asking for a further £6 million on top of the price accepted. Its my opinion that the Governemnt should accept this Tender and get on with the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 The Local press have stated that the Tender from AWG will be rejected by the design team (Dazza) Just to begin here, who is/are Dazza? I've been consulting google and haven't come up with anything that seems relevant. This isn't a clue leading somehow to Dalrymple Associates is it? Incidentally, I just ran "Dalrymple Associates" through advanced google search requesting with the exact phrase Dalrymple Associates, and was rather surprised to see the major government projects in which they appeared to be involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 The Local press have stated that the Tender from AWG will be rejected by the design team (Dazza) Just to begin here, who is/are Dazza? I've been consulting google and haven't come up with anything that seems relevant. This isn't a clue leading somehow to Dalrymple Associates is it? Incidentally, I just ran "Dalrymple Associates" through advanced google search requesting with the exact phrase Dalrymple Associates, and was rather surprised to see the major government projects in which they appeared to be involved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes the Brother in Law of Ned gets 90% of all GOVERNMENT Contracts, is that value for money of just a favour. Why is the Profesional side of Construction not sent out to Tender, is should be by law, otherwise it becomes an open cheque book to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Yes the Brother in Law of Ned gets 90% of all GOVERNMENT Contracts, is that value for money of just a favour. Why is the Profesional side of Construction not sent out to Tender, is should be by law, otherwise it becomes an open cheque book to some. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can you list the Government Contracts that they are the Project Managers on, because as far as I was aware most of the government project managment goes to Savage & Chadwick and Burough Stewart Associates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstream Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Aye, good point. There are a number of clowns on this forum who may possibly "have something" in the point they are trying to make/suggest. And then make an utter fool of themselves by making wild statements. Yes the Brother in Law of Ned gets 90% of all GOVERNMENT Contracts 90%?... exactly 90%?.... well who has the other 10%? etc. Why can't crumlin and his pals make statements such as "more than what many would consider a fair share" or even "one helluva lot". Anything. Not 90%. Unless of course it is exactly 90% and crumlin has all the contract figures to prove it. In which case I stand corrected. What sort of a forum is this anyway - idle pub gossip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilDDog Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 What sort of a forum is this anyway - idle pub gossip Most forums are. Led Zeppelin (track Black Dog) will be the Christmas number one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 My ex-girlfriend was from Glasgow, her dad and his mates were talking about the prison contract on the Island and how "they" were potentially recruiting construction workers from Scotland. He was considering the temporary move because the money is really good. This was also the case for the hospital. This was approx 18 months ago though, and I'm not sure who his point of contact was.. I've a few questions about this Dalrymple Associates. How is he rated in the private sector (the real world) as a civil engineer/surveyor (not sure of profession)? And how did he get into the position he is with regards to the government (what is his exact relationship).. Is it a matter of family ties (which would be very Manx-Government-esque) ? Does he have much work outside of the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I've a few questions about this Dalrymple Associates. How is he rated in the private sector (the real world) as a civil engineer/surveyor (not sure of profession)?We've used the firm. They were thoroughly professional and business like. We were more than happy with the work they did for us. They were also flexible and efficient with their time - which helped us to keep our costs down. 10/10 frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 Aye, good point. There are a number of clowns on this forum who may possibly "have something" in the point they are trying to make/suggest. And then make an utter fool of themselves by making wild statements. Yes the Brother in Law of Ned gets 90% of all GOVERNMENT Contracts 90%?... exactly 90%?.... well who has the other 10%? etc. Why can't crumlin and his pals make statements such as "more than what many would consider a fair share" or even "one helluva lot". Anything. Not 90%. Unless of course it is exactly 90% and crumlin has all the contract figures to prove it. In which case I stand corrected. What sort of a forum is this anyway - idle pub gossip? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How many Government Departments contracts are they not involved in. Several of the contracts at teh new prison have all ready been awarded without going to tender, these went to companies owned by Dazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I've a few questions about this Dalrymple Associates. How is he rated in the private sector (the real world) as a civil engineer/surveyor (not sure of profession)?We've used the firm. Very were thoroughly professional and business like. We were more than happy with the work they did for us. They were also flexible and efficient with their time - which helped us to keep our costs down. 10/10 frankly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess there are some positives then, it's only when I re-read my message this morning it sounded a bit like I was after a witch hunt. If he's very capable and respected in the private sector then I dont see a problem with them doing government work. My only problem, which isn't just limited to government construction contracts, is the apparent lack of public tender. Generally I consider tender a good thing, I'd also prefer a committee of experts to make a decision - not just one or two blokes, who 'could' be receiving back-handers from their decision. There's always been a certain 'click' when it comes to government work, and the people who get it, always seem to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy One Mate Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 OK lets have some facts here not idle pub gossip. Dalrymple and Associates are a multi disciplined professional practice. The services that they offer is Architecture, Planning Supervisors, Building Surveys, Project Management, Clerk of Works and Contract Dispute Resolution. They also appear at planning reviews and appeals. The way this thread reads is that Dalrymples are awarded 90% of Government Contracts. This is not the case but they are probably involved in 90% in some guise ie Clerk of Works, Project Management etc, in other words a small integral part of the construction process. For example on the New Prison they are the Project Managers and the Clerk of Works. THEY ARE NOT THE Architects, Structural Engineers, Services Engineers or the Contractors. In some of the fields that they operate in there is very little competition from others so obviously they will be appointed on a large proportion of Government Contracts. Now for the New Prison. AWG Construction were appointed after a first stage tender which is a tender based on limited information as the design is not complete with the idea being that the final price is evolved with the Contractor during the Design Process.. The commitment given to the Contractor at this stage is only that they will be paid an agreed figure for their involvement up to design completion and contract figure computation. If as appears has happened here the end figure is greater than the Budget the Design team can say bye bye to AWG and go out to tender on the basis that the Design Team can achieve a better figure elsewhere. (hope you are all still with me) Now for the problems!!!!! AWG (morrisons) have established themselves on the Island and many Local SubContractors are happy to work with them. If the same approach is used as with Government Offices, the cheapest price recieved for the construction was from a Local Company which was over the budget so they went out to retender by advertising all over the UK and Ireland and managed to find a Contractor who had never worked here before, OHareMcGovrn and surprise surprise they came in considerably cheaper than the Local Company and three UK Companies who know what the cost of building on the Island is and the peculiar rules and regulations that apply here. What will be the final price be Government Offices at the end of the day and will it be finished by July 2005 ???? Also what benefit to the local Construction Industry and the Islands Economy has this major project given NONE!!!! I am concerned that the same approach will be made on the Prison. Yes we will all be told that a cheaper price has been obtained but at what cost!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Thanks Billy that has cleared up a fair bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 Billy can the design team go back to one of the previous contractors that failed at stage one of tender, if so this would be unfair as they now know what price to beat. Its been rumoured that Dandara have told the team that they can build the Prison for £34 million, if this is true why did they not submit this at stage one. To go to retender would be unfair to some of the local subcontractors that have spent time and money puting a price together. If it is put to retender will it be to the same design as that of AWG, how much extra will it cost for profesional fees. or will the design team wave any further costs to the taxpayer. Im starting to smell a Rat with this contract. Do you know who will be paying to put all the faults in order at the New Hospital and the Iris treatment plant. As for the Tynwald Buildings were the Local contractors given the choice to omit the works to the top two floors at tender stage. And my other question is why dont the Government put the profesional side of Construction out to tender and why are so many of the profesionals on the Island unhappy about the way Goverment appoint the profesional side of things. If you have no one to compete agaist you can name your own price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Could someone explain how the tendering process works? I'm unfamiliar with the process. If a company says it'll cost £90,000,000 and they get the contract on that basis, and then the final works actually costs £120,000,000 - who is responsible? Every project the government has undertaken seems wwaaaayyyy over-budget (from what I've seen), dramatically in some cases. Surely if I submitted a tender that I'd build the prison for £500 they'd go "ahh" thats a bit cheap. Obviously when talking multiples of millions, surely the "experts" should really know that a submission is probably £10,000,000 out and unrealistic or do they expect buy one get one free on bricks, and charity brick layers. Some of the over-spending is simply shocking, surely someone must be responsible for agreeing it in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 Concrete, do you know the cost of buying brown envelopes in bulk, it cant be cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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