manshimajin Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 It's team work that makes good children - not just parents alone. It's team work that makes good children - not just governments alone too. PS: I can't remember when Margaret Thatcher was First Minister but maybe the behaviour of youngsters here was her fault not ours...how comforting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Mrs Thatcher - milk snatcher. Bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Mrs Thatcher - milk snatcher. Bitch. Couldn't agree more - but she is and was over there...the lady that nearly lost us the Malvinas...and then had to get folk killed to get them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 The example they see in adults think promenade on a saturday night----learn children There are many more reasons than these, some we can change many we cannot. All the more call for curfew then. It is the parents, full stop. In their early, formative years, 90% of everything kids learn is from the parents. Whether it be apparently responsible husband shouting at wife or kicking the family pet, single mother who is a bit of a slapper, or council house dad fiddling benefits, everything is a lesson. One thing people seem to forget, respect is earned, not assumed. Adults have to earn that respect and until there is a total change of mindset it will not happen. Im assuming for the adults here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 And another thing... Mrs Craine, parents can only do a good job of what they do in corroboration with other services. If she really wants to help she could do worse than looking at the school curriculum (and this is not just an Island issue - it's the UK too) While we continue to focus on academic achievement as the benchmark of success. While the UK use published figures (and the Island uses word of mouth) to measure 'success' and those figures are made entirely from academic exam results then it doesn't take much sense to work out that that is where their efforts and resources will be concentrated. Not all children are academic. Not all children are educationally 'bright'. Some are average and some are below and thank God for that. But what chance do those children have? What percentage of children have no opportunities here to do courses of study other than GCSE? How many children in primary school (for goodness sake) already feel they are failing because they are not 'clever'? I'm not surprised kids are kicking off. Imagine going into work every day and feeling you're biding time till you leave and no matter what you do you're never going to be as good as the person next to you. So many children aren't happy any more. They don't feel as though they are succeeding in very much and that leads to low self esteem and a reluctance to take healthy risks. Bad risks are easy - especially when there's a whole group of you that don't give a toss. These kids across with the knives - do you think they are the regular GCSE guys with projected GCSE results of C and above? Are they hell. They're the ones that don't think they matter any more. I'm not surprised they're kicking off - I'm only surprised it took them this long. And just imagine how it must be trying to be a parent to those kind of kids - even more difficult when you have been through the same system yourself. So, Mrs Craine, look at the curriculum. Stop measuring schools in academic performance alone - there is SO much more to base success on. Put back vocational training. Start valuing our children no matter how 'clever' the system deems them to be - really valuing them - not just a bit of lip service here and there. It's team work that makes good children - not just parents alone. Take your point Rox, the education system is more competitive now than it was when we were at school. We had streaming in the old days, very early on you were assigned a stream which corresponded to your expected academic ability; no competition, you just did it. Those who were assessed with a lower academic expectation were directed to more practical subjects with different teaching methods. But now there is a closet streaming, so you end up with children who are less academically able being directly measured with those who are more able. All in the interests of not categorising the pupils, but which probably puts more pressure on everyone. However, as for a feeling of self worth, it is not for schools to do that, although they must contribute, but it is for parents to take responsibility and engender a feeling of self worth for their own children, and that starts from birth. Parenting isn't difficult, on the other hand, facing up to, and accepting, the responsibility may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Not joking, but said tongue in cheek - they are descriptive of past events. Britain is not far behind Zimbabwe, 50 years max. Remember, 50 years ago Zimbabwe did not even exist. Personal computers didn't exist 50 years ago; is that also a sign of our imminent demise? Britain is not tumbling towards a state of anarchy; people need to start living in the real world and stop talking about things in bullshit fin-de-siecle terms. This idea that previously children were all well-behaved, or that some young people were not armed is utterly ridiculous. There is not 'huge unrest,' and there hasn't really been any in Great Britain since the last Jacobite rebellion. These things can be tackled - a few years ago Nottingham was infamous for gun crime, and now that problem is pretty much gone. At no part of this initiative was 'bad parenting' tackled. It doesn't matter what boundaries parents set down if the child's mates don't have the same ones. Those who that the social problems in our society are caused by bad or insufficient parenting are being hopelessly naive. As for Government using academic performance as a measure of success, what do you think employers are using? I know from my time at school that certain students were moved on to vocational courses, but there are still some that just aren't interested in learning, unless they started offering courses in DJing or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Personal computers didn't exist 50 years ago; is that also a sign of our imminent demise? Britain is not tumbling towards a state of anarchy; people need to start living in the real world and stop talking about things in bullshit fin-de-siecle terms. This idea that previously children were all well-behaved, or that some young people were not armed is utterly ridiculous. There is not 'huge unrest,' and there hasn't really been any in Great Britain since the last Jacobite rebellion. These things can be tackled - a few years ago Nottingham was infamous for gun crime, and now that problem is pretty much gone. At no part of this initiative was 'bad parenting' tackled. It doesn't matter what boundaries parents set down if the child's mates don't have the same ones. Those who that the social problems in our society are caused by bad or insufficient parenting are being hopelessly naive. As for Government using academic performance as a measure of success, what do you think employers are using? I know from my time at school that certain students were moved on to vocational courses, but there are still some that just aren't interested in learning, unless they started offering courses in DJing or something. So, in the late 1970s the winter of discontent, the 3 day week, strikes, and later, the rioting in Toxteth, Brixton, etc. are you saying these were not civil unrest that forced change? As for academic performance, the government are more interested in rating schools that pupils. Unfortunately, not streaming kids is slowing the learning in general as clever kids are being held back. I am not quite sure what you are talking about regarding employers, but schools need to bring back competition because life is competitive and I feel sorry for kids going into employment because it must be a real kick up the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 While we continue to focus on academic achievement as the benchmark of success. While the UK use published figures (and the Island uses word of mouth) to measure 'success' and those figures are made entirely from academic exam results then it doesn't take much sense to work out that that is where their efforts and resources will be concentrated. Not all children are academic. Not all children are educationally 'bright'. Some are average and some are below and thank God for that. But what chance do those children have? What percentage of children have no opportunities here to do courses of study other than GCSE? How many children in primary school (for goodness sake) already feel they are failing because they are not 'clever'? I'm not surprised kids are kicking off. Imagine going into work every day and feeling you're biding time till you leave and no matter what you do you're never going to be as good as the person next to you. So many children aren't happy any more. They don't feel as though they are succeeding in very much and that leads to low self esteem and a reluctance to take healthy risks. Bad risks are easy - especially when there's a whole group of you that don't give a toss. These kids across with the knives - do you think they are the regular GCSE guys with projected GCSE results of C and above? Are they hell. They're the ones that don't think they matter any more. I'm not surprised they're kicking off - I'm only surprised it took them this long. Gets my vote for "Post of the Year 2008". My sister is a teacher. By 3:31 pm this Friday she will no longer be a teacher. Like lots of others before her she is leaving the service as early as she can. She tells me the reason for this is because each new intake is worse than the one before in terms of behaviour. You can only teach those who want to learn. Lots just couldn't be arsed. So it seems by about 11 years of age it's already too late. Now I suppose you could blame Primary School for their problems but I don't really see it somehow. As Gladys posted earlier parenting is easy-peasy. However I would say that good parenting is bloody hard work. Those who turn up at Secondary School already with "attitude" are mainly the result of crap parents. That's the problem because they are probably set to be failures from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Roxanne, ofc that is what I meant to say xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immortalpuppet Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Not all children are academic. Not all children are educationally 'bright'. Some are average and some are below and thank God for that. But what chance do those children have? What percentage of children have no opportunities here to do courses of study other than GCSE? How many children in primary school (for goodness sake) already feel they are failing because they are not 'clever'? I'm not surprised kids are kicking off. Imagine going into work every day and feeling you're biding time till you leave and no matter what you do you're never going to be as good as the person next to you. So, Mrs Craine, look at the curriculum. Stop measuring schools in academic performance alone - there is SO much more to base success on. Put back vocational training. Start valuing our children no matter how 'clever' the system deems them to be - really valuing them - not just a bit of lip service here and there. It's team work that makes good children - not just parents alone. They do have a system in place (started back up again a couple of years ago i think.) where school kids have the choice to learn a vocation, or to start learning them anyway. When you choose GCSE`s there are options for thinks like hair dressing and construction/engineering ect for those of us that were shite at achedemic things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I have seen many different sides to this eternal row over who is to blame for failure, i left school at 14, i was a failed pupil, years later i ended up teaching for a living. One thing always bothered me with the"its all the parents fault brigade", an actual example in the town--a friend of mine is the straightest guy i know, he has never put a foot wrong in his life, zero police record, i have never heard him swear, married for 30 plus years--in short a shining example of a citizen. Now his younger brother by 1 year is the lowest tw@ you can hope to come across, drugs, alcahlol, theft, deception you name it he has done it. He is a regular at Victoria Road. Are his parents, the same as his brother, to blame or is it not the case that bad is in you, it isnt taught by default or poor upbringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Come off it! Sure there are exceptions and I'm sure we all know at least one. But you can stand at the school gates (well, you could until they started arresting folks who did it on "suspicion" of being a kiddy fiddler) and be pretty accurate about who is going to do well and who isn't. Me I would like them all to do as well as their abilities will allow but because of their "role models" some are doomed to failure from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Essentially she's right. You only have to look at some of the kids at secondary school these days to worry about what the IOM will be like in 20 years time. You can't run a successful econony if all you are producing are chav knob-end kids brought up by feckless chav knob-end parents. Anyone who worked here before 1990 will attest that you had to have a work ethic as there was bugger all here. But it does not seem to apply now. From my own experience I would prefer to employ people over 30 as most of the kids I've seen taken on in the last couple of years are just lazy rude bastards who think the world owes them a living. Its a terrible generalisation but its true more often than not. Its not about the education system, or particularly about academic standards its about wanting to be successful or not and using the skills you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 perhaps the kids on the street would have liked to see Princess Anne, not just the usual WAGS but she was too busy with the Islands rich and famous (famous in Port Erin ofc). Port Erin is a dump. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.