Our Fantastic Education System

[VinnieK]

In contrast many Communist countries produced excellent graduates in engineering, medicine and the sciences. They were not so good (or keen) at producing graduates in the 'questioning and analytical' disciplines.

 

Science isn't questioning and analytical? The problem wasn't so much that the communist countries weren't keen on producing graduates in other disciplines, so much as those working in the humanities and arts had to base a lot of their work around the core assumption that Marxist-Leninist philosophy was the largely irrefutable starting point of any line of inquiry. Within that framework, however, there were plenty of powerful thinkers, and Eastern European mathematicians (as distinct from scientists) have always been held in particular high esteem for their imaginative and creative qualities.

 

The danger for the UK is that if it does not produce enough scientists and engineers it will drift further towards a 'service' economy. But the other danger is producing a society that can only follow the rules. Is this why accountants ae so appalling at strategy?

 

There is actually a third possibility, which is already in practice both in the UK and the US and has been for some time - import scientists from other countries to fill vacant positions. Britain has never really been bursting with the seams with scientists and engineers, especially during the last century or so, but it's always had plenty of capital (generated by the service industry now as then) to invest in science and engineering. So it is today - science and innovation tends to follow investment around more than it does raw numbers of graduates (who will often tend to work where the money is). The problem facing the UK's scientific and engineering industries is less down to a lack of graduates (which is more or less convenient scapegoat for the Government), than it is the stingy and ill thought out funding policies of parliament.

 

Until only recently there was a real threat that Jodrell bank was going to have to close down because of a shortfall in the science budget thanks to the government raiding it (I believe with the intent of propping up MG Rover for a couple of weeks), and word is that funds are regularly diverted from useful and potentially profitable but less glamorous projects in order to fund whatever flavour of the month quantum-bullshit/nano fantasy that stands a chance of getting mentioned the science pages of the press. That, as time will test, is no way to build up a solid, profitable industry.

[manshimajin]

In contrast many Communist countries produced excellent graduates in engineering, medicine and the sciences. They were not so good (or keen) at producing graduates in the 'questioning and analytical' disciplines.

Science isn't questioning and analytical? The problem wasn't so much that the communist countries weren't keen on producing graduates in other disciplines, so much as those working in the humanities and arts had to base a lot of their work around the core assumption that Marxist-Leninist philosophy was the largely irrefutable starting point of any line of inquiry. Within that framework, however, there were plenty of powerful thinkers, and Eastern European mathematicians (as distinct from scientists) have always been held in particular high esteem for their imaginative and creative qualities.

Vinniek, I was trying to make a general point that a well balanced socety needs all kinds of disciplines.

 

Science is questioning and analytical within its disciplines but requires that results can be exactly replicated. Your comment on the irrefutability of Marxism/Leninism philosophy supports my point - the Communists attempted to put the arts and humanities onto a pseudo-scientific rule governed basis which hardly encouraged liberal thinking or a willingness to risk making individual decisions. The value of the arts and humanities is that they encourage individual thought and the view that there is no such thing as 'absolute truth'.

[jimbms]

It doesn't help a childs perception when the term Engineer is not a protected title here, and as such Mechanics/Electricians/Plumbers often use the title Engineer also. What is more annoying is when a University undergraduate mentions they are studying Engineering for some one to turn around and say thats good, we always need people to fix boilers.

You have hit the nail on the head there, it is a thing that annnoys me, to me untill you have attained the minimum qualification of HNC you cannot begin to be classed as an engineer you are a tradesman or technician at the most. Even more a gripe is when I see adverts for "financial risk assessment engineer" with a job description that has no engineering skills, how the hell can a fekin bean counter be even considered an engineer and dont even start me on I.T. engineers, I don't know about here but across in UK the majority are people who have done a short govt funded course and know how to install networks, windows and printers etc, I have yet to find one who can install linux from source or break down and rebuild a DLL or even the simple act of making their own drivers for peripherals, to me that is not an engineer it is hardly up to technician level.

[lopezfetishist]

My children,14 and seven came over with us from Cheshire 3 years ago. While they were making great progress in Cheshire, their progress has virtually stopped here. I find that I am educating them at home in the evenings. My youngest child ,who has special needs,seems to spend most of his time painting. They don't have the skills or desire to give him a proper education. This is his second school and they have the same 'we're in the Isle of Man so lets relax' attitude.

[Knoxville]

My children,14 and seven came over with us from Cheshire 3 years ago. While they were making great progress in Cheshire, their progress has virtually stopped here. I find that I am educating them at home in the evenings. My youngest child ,who has special needs,seems to spend most of his time painting. They don't have the skills or desire to give him a proper education. This is his second school and they have the same 'we're in the Isle of Man so lets relax' attitude.

 

Well take your " special needs " child and piss off back to the UK, we dont want your tainting our gene pool with your good awful genes.

[jimbms]

My children,14 and seven came over with us from Cheshire 3 years ago. While they were making great progress in Cheshire, their progress has virtually stopped here. I find that I am educating them at home in the evenings. My youngest child ,who has special needs,seems to spend most of his time painting. They don't have the skills or desire to give him a proper education. This is his second school and they have the same 'we're in the Isle of Man so lets relax' attitude.

 

Well take your " special needs " child and piss off back to the UK, we dont want your tainting our gene pool with your good awful genes.

I take it from that kind of moronic answer you have been through the special needs section yourself and are scared someone may take your job at McDonalds/Shopshite. As I stated before my youngest son is severly dyslexic thus classed as special needs yet he is well on course for a 1:1 honours in engineering design, in fact his first year marks are the highest on the course for 12 yrs. So I would advise you think before you open your mouth with bigoted comments like that. I am sure when he qualifies and moves back here (which he fully intends to) he will make sure he avoids breeding with as low a gene pool as your own.

lopezfetishist Let me appologise on behalf of the many for the uneducated bigoted comment that has been made, not all here are as bad.

 

Quick footnote it is God awful genes, not good awful, that would make it a contradiction even in your Gene puddle

[Lonan3]

I have a great deal of sympathy for those who have 'suffered' at the hands of an inadequate education system - regardless of it's location.

There are good and bad schools in all areas - even for those pupils who have all the advantages.

Unfortunately, the local system only pays lip-service to those with problems. Whether it is dyslexic children (many of whom develop their own 'strategies for coping with education - my own daughter has done so), children with ADHD or ADD, or even those who are autistic to varying degrees - some of whose symtoms are so mild, or occasional, that they slip through the net completely.

Having worked with such young people - and studied a great deal of what has been written on the subject - I would have to say that there are few places in the world where consistent adequate help is being provided.

In this respect I'm sorry to say that the island is far from being an exception although, if the will really existed, it could be.

[Knoxville]

My children,14 and seven came over with us from Cheshire 3 years ago. While they were making great progress in Cheshire, their progress has virtually stopped here. I find that I am educating them at home in the evenings. My youngest child ,who has special needs,seems to spend most of his time painting. They don't have the skills or desire to give him a proper education. This is his second school and they have the same 'we're in the Isle of Man so lets relax' attitude.

 

Well take your " special needs " child and piss off back to the UK, we dont want your tainting our gene pool with your good awful genes.

I take it from that kind of moronic answer you have been through the special needs section yourself and are scared someone may take your job at McDonalds/Shopshite. As I stated before my youngest son is severly dyslexic thus classed as special needs yet he is well on course for a 1:1 honours in engineering design, in fact his first year marks are the highest on the course for 12 yrs. So I would advise you think before you open your mouth with bigoted comments like that. I am sure when he qualifies and moves back here (which he fully intends to) he will make sure he avoids breeding with as low a gene pool as your own.

lopezfetishist Let me appologise on behalf of the many for the uneducated bigoted comment that has been made, not all here are as bad.

 

Quick footnote it is God awful genes, not good awful, that would make it a contradiction even in your Gene puddle

 

I look forward to interviewing your son for a job at McDonalds then.