Amadeus Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Gypsy girls' corpses on beach in Italy fail to put off sunbathers None-graphic, but still shocking pictures here Speechless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Maybe they thought some German tourists had reserved them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 No compassion there and none here either apparently. :/ Very sad. I was thinking the same thing. Low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I found the pictures truly shocking but sadly they did not surprise me. Italy has officially sanctioned discrimination against the Roma by subjecting them to compulsory fingerprint screening - children included. When you own Government takes against a section of the population it's all to easy for gullible, small, mean minded people to follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Quite shocking really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea&Biscuits Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I was truly shocked at the coldness and disregard for human life. I mean could you honestly sit there eating your dinner with 2 dead CHILDREN lying near you? No most of you wouldnt I am sure. Who cares what ethnic origin they are, they are human life and deserve some kind of dignity. Apparently there is now an investigation taking place by the charity EveryOne as they are thinking that their deaths may be suspicious. I dont want to make out that all Italian people are the same but I can speak from experience that whenever I have visited parts of Italy/Sardinia with my boyf (and ex-boyf -who was non white) we always encountered racism. It did not suprise me the way the Italian authorities treated this and the ambivalence of the "spectators" - truly shocking. Every life is worth something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Granted there may be problems in Italy with the influx of the Roma. However, the Italian Government seems to have officially sanctioned discrimination: Italy to fingerprint all Roma gypsy children To me that just sends out a message that the Roma are to be treated as racially inferior and that cruelty and bullying are okay. It is for this reason that I am passionately against systems of state registraition such as ID Cards, national population registers, fingerprint databases and the like. There will always be crank politicians who will use these types of surveillance and registration to discriminate against sections of society they don't like. Freedom, democracy and civil liberties must never be compromised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Doesn't anybody else smell a rat in this bit of journalism? I mean, I don't know about you but I wouldn't knowingly go sunbathing next to the corpses of children, irrespective of whether I had some sort of prejudice/disregard for their ethnic group or not. As much as there may be a particular axe to grind on this issue, is this not just a bit of journalistic spin on what might have been people simply not knowing that they were dead bodies under the towels? It's not like there's police tape around them, they're simply under beach towels like other tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I mean, I don't know about you but I wouldn't knowingly go sunbathing next to the corpses of children, irrespective of whether I had some sort of prejudice/disregard for their ethnic group or not. The story says that the bodies were brought onto the beach, and that onlookers simply carried on with their sunbathing once their curiosity had been satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I mean, I don't know about you but I wouldn't knowingly go sunbathing next to the corpses of children, irrespective of whether I had some sort of prejudice/disregard for their ethnic group or not. The story says that the bodies were brought onto the beach, and that onlookers simply carried on with their sunbathing once their curiosity had been satisfied. I have to admit if I was on the beach and a reasonable distance away I probably would have remained if I did not have the kids with me as I think I might have presumed it was an exercise or if not I would have presumed that they would shortly have been taken away if they had just been brought on the beach. I would not be expecting the bodies to remain there for long. If they had been uncovered, or found washed up on the beach then I think my reaction would be different. Equally I hope I would have the decency not to have gone over to gawp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I mean, I don't know about you but I wouldn't knowingly go sunbathing next to the corpses of children, irrespective of whether I had some sort of prejudice/disregard for their ethnic group or not. The story says that the bodies were brought onto the beach, and that onlookers simply carried on with their sunbathing once their curiosity had been satisfied. Even so, I think it's more a matter of how human beings don't know how to react when something out of the ordinary or unpleasant happens, rather than a display of inherent racism or hate for an ethnic group, which is what is being implied by the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Not quite sure what to say. I can imagine a carefully constructed picture of motorbikes, a body bag and spectators engrossed in their love of motor sports - would that illicit different responses? When a body was left in someone's garden as practicing continued I was angry and thought racing should have been stopped. Now should a public beach also be closed? I'm not sure. The thing is tragic, but I think it is too easy to be outraged. Over the TT I thought racing should have been stopped to allow the body to be removed, but should all the spectators in the area have also been told to move away, or stand in silence or whatever. Its not feasable. I see little relevence in the fact these two people were Roma - are people really claiming if the people under the towels had been of a different nationality the bathers would have behaved differently. I doubt it. People got on with what they were doing - I presume some people would have felt sad, some people indifferent, but there was little they could do. I don't think I can condemn them and suspect the photos are exaggerating the outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I see little relevence in the fact these two people were Roma - are people really claiming if the people under the towels had been of a different nationality the bathers would have behaved differently. I doubt it. Except that Italy has a very right wing Government that is taking direct action against the Roma. Picture 5 in the sequence most disturbs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 The pictures were taken over a short span of time, hence the guy on the phone in the two shots, no-one was very close to them and certainly not looking or gawping. The powers removed them quickly and with decency, no body bags but coffins. Every picture tells a story but how they are presented is the point. Why 5 different shots from different angles? With zoom and focus something can appear to be closer together than in reality. What we have is a photographer trying to get the best shot for his paper and putting others in the frame for reference. Taking the pictures of the family in their immediate grief is obscene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Now should a public beach also be closed? I'm not sure. But no one asked for the beach to closed, or said that it should - it's more the reaction of people continuing to go about their business with an air of indifference that's being called into question, and Italy's overall treatment of and attitudes towards the Roma. The thing is tragic, but I think it is too easy to be outraged. I think you're misjudging the mood a little bit. I would have said that it was more one of concern with regards to the Italy's attitude towards Roma in general, and sadness on behalf of the two girls. I'm not sure that the example of the TT is that useful as a point of comparison. I agree with you that I would have preferred racing be stopped in the name of retrieving a body, but spectators go to view what they know in advance can be a dangerous event where there's a possibility people will get hurt or killed before their eyes. It simply isn't the same as going down the beach for a nice day out and nonchalantly ignoring two bodies being pulled from the sea and dumped in the vicinity of your picnic. Also, how many spectators were actually in close proximity to the body and could see it in full view whilst watching the races? People got on with what they were doing - I presume some people would have felt sad, some people indifferent, but there was little they could do. I don't think I can condemn them and suspect the photos are exaggerating the outrage. Again, I don't think there's as much outrage as you think. Also, there's plenty people could have done. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm of the opinion that seeing dead bodies tends to spoil a nice day in the sunshine - I'd have gone home, or anywhere else just to get away from the scene. Faced with the sad end of two young lives and the spectre of mortality "getting on with what you're doing" doesn't seem quite so important, or desirable, especially when what you're doing is nothing more urgent than arsing around on the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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