Cronky Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 All seems a bit bizarre when you consider that the only terrorist events post 9/11 in the UK were on the tube and buses, and were perpetrated by UK residents. So, more stringent border controls are a good idea?! Couldn't agree more. Of course, if they log our movements to and from the UK then HMRC will surely get the data and be able to check up on tax and residency issues whilst claiming to 'protect' us from all evils. To be fair to the politicians here they must be pretty narked at having any type of travel controls foisted on the Isle of Man - presumably that's why they are being highly diplomatic on the issue. It's just a nonsense to check people so closely over such a small geographic area as the British Isles. By all means count people in and out of the whole of the UK. But between the Isle of Man and the UK? If they are worried about illegal immigration I would suggest it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 on the face of it I quite agree however with the amount of illegals in the UK and I've no doubt the IOM alrady this might be the start fo a serious attempt to do something about them. Restricting travel to those legally entitled to be here is a reasonable start, we've already got KYC on banking so it would be easy to limit cash accounts to those entitled to be here also. the post office could require id before selling stamps, ID for a SIM card, ID before you can licence a motor vehicle, ID to be permitted access to A&E or doctor surgeries, groceries only to those who work, earn' live have right to be her and can show an ID. IF A PEOPLE IS TO BECOME FREE IT NEEDS PRIDE AND WILL-POWER, DEFIANCE, HATE, HATE, AND ONCE AGAIN HATE.... [AH - APRIL 10, 1923] whoops got carried away, where is all this heading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Restricting travel to those legally entitled to be here is a reasonable start, we've already got KYC on banking so it would be easy to limit cash accounts to those entitled to be here also. the post office could require id before selling stamps, ID for a SIM card, ID before you can licence a motor vehicle, ID to be permitted access to A&E or doctor surgeries, groceries only to those who work, earn' live have right to be her and can show an ID. What a horrible way to have to live your life. I really resent the way this is all being imposed on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombay Bad Boy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Update "Freedom of movement between the Isle of Man and the UK will be maintained...the Manx Government had been consulted on the changes...ferry passengers sailing to Heysham will be unaffected" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 FIXED immigration controls will not be brought in between the Isle of Man and the UK. It's all in the small print. 'FIXED' controls implies that every time you travel you have to have your identity checked. Non 'FIXED' controls implies that they can spot check people to see whether you are resident or not. Equally they could demand ID when you make your booking. E.g. you get another box for your passport number on the Steam Packet or FlyMaybe website. No number - no booking. I don't see how it can be argued otherwise as to the intrusive nature of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I used to think that just the US had gone fascist (they meet most of Mussolini's criteria) but sounds as if Gordon has reverted to his student Stalinist ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 What has actually changed that will require this to be introduced in 6 years time ? Whatever it is cannot be an emergecy otherwise it would be in place in August 2008 absolute latest. Is this anything to do with UK ID Cards - another way of promoting them? Listened to the BBC World Service a couple of weeks ago. They exposed an illegal racket that is bringing poor people in from the Punjab and putting them to work as low cost labour in cafes and building sites. The people smugglers can provide excellent forged documents. The reaction of the UK Home Office when approached by the BBC reporter was not: "goodness, how did you find out about this racket...we are going to step in an put an immediate stop to it", it was "this demonstrates how important it is to introduce a national ID Card" A little mind boggling as a reaction (particularly as a sophisticated forger will no doubt be able to add the ID Cards to his/her portfolio). It seemed to me that they were trying all sorts of 'spin' to justify an identity card that few people in the UK seem to want. In December 2004 the BBC reported Ministers have suggested Parliament could decide in 2011 or 2012 whether to make it compulsory for everybody to own, but not to carry, the cards. and the Home Office website currently says Starting in 2010, ID cards will be offered to young people on a purely voluntary basis. Is everything coming together about 2014 for a compulsory scheme? This travel document scheme could be one of the ways to generate the need for the cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Having done some digging around I found this piece in the Irish Times However, it is argued by some that the production of a passport, or a national ID card, is the only way in which an e-borders system requiring advance, verifiable information about passengers could operate effectively. So who has the authority to say who travels and who stays put? The two governments have also agreed that vehicles being carried by ferry can be searched to ensure that all passengers on board have proper documentation, while the ferries themselves could be fined for not ensuring that passengers' papers were in order. So, no 'FIXED' immigration controls but they can turn you car over on a whim. "It is expected that this police power will only apply to air and sea routes between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Passengers will not be required to use passports, but may be required to produce one of several types of documentation, including passports, when travelling, to enable the carrier to meet the requirements of a police request," he said. Jolly good. Think I'll ditch the passport and use my bus pass. Anyone know who in Government is dealing with all this? Not sure we are being given the 'Full Monty' here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Having done some digging around I found this piece in the Irish Times[/url"It is expected that this police power will only apply to air and sea routes between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Passengers will not be required to use passports, but may be required to produce one of several types of documentation, including passports, when travelling, to enable the carrier to meet the requirements of a police request," he said. Actually it would be interesting to see how this would operate - would they require documents for Irish registered cars only or for NI and UK registered cars too? Presumably it would mean that if you wanted to go to Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK you would need a passport (or as you say a bus pass). Interesting how the guys on the Shankill Road would react to this. I am also having a quiet chuckle about all thos Brits who have bought NI 'vanity' plates for their cars being stopped and searched as suspect illegal aliens.... At last, if they do this, the UK Government is recognising that Northern Ireland is not actually part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but an adjunct of the Republic of Ireland. Sorry Dr Paisley... Still this may depend on Gordon Broon (I feel your pain) being re-elected.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Update "Freedom of movement between the Isle of Man and the UK will be maintained...the Manx Government had been consulted on the changes...ferry passengers sailing to Heysham will be unaffected" ...what about to and from Liverpool, or has that been deliberately left out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Interesting how the guys on the Shankill Road would react to this. Wow, I hadn't thought of that. Those whose sympathies lie with Eire probably will like feeling a bit more separate from the UK. But . . . the other lot might well feel that they are being somehow distanced from their 'mainland'. Has the British Government lit a tinderbox in Ulster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Interesting how the guys on the Shankill Road would react to this. Wow, I hadn't thought of that. Those whose sympathies lie with Eire probably will like feeling a bit more separate from the UK. But . . . the other lot might well feel that they are being somehow distanced from their 'mainland'. Has the British Government lit a tinderbox in Ulster? IF this happens the way the Irish Times predicts then it does send a clear messge that Northern Ireland is not as much a part of the UK of GB & NI as other countries. Can't think immediately of another country bar those in the Communist world that require citizens to show passports or ID documents to pass from one part to another. Presumably if you were going from the IOM to Belfast you would need to carry a passport or ID document to be able to get back...ah well it is not until 2014 and a lot can happen in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 ...ah well it is not until 2014 and a lot can happen in between. ...6 years is time enough for at least 2 governments, a revolution, and still being home in time for cornflakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Can't think immediately of another country bar those in the Communist world that require citizens to show passports or ID documents to pass from one part to another. that 'bastion of the free' - otherwise known as the united states of america (bush revision) needs such documents for all internal flights + even access to national parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Can't think immediately of another country bar those in the Communist world that require citizens to show passports or ID documents to pass from one part to another. that 'bastion of the free' - otherwise known as the united states of america (bush revision) needs such documents for all internal flights + even access to national parks Sounds like 'Ryanair World'...but the UK is adjacent to an area of the EU where there is freedom of movement across borders after your first port of entry. Trust the British to be proceeding forwards in reverse gear. The Schengen rules apply among most European countries, covering a population of over 400 million and a total area of 4,268,633 km² (1,648,128 sq mi). They include provisions on common policy on the temporary entry of persons (including the Schengen Visa), the harmonisation of external border controls, which are coordinated by the Frontex agency of the European Union, and cross-border police and judicial co-operation.A total of 29 states, including 25 European Union states and four non-EU members (Iceland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Switzerland), are bound to the full set of rules in the Schengen Agreement And those pollies over the water are wanting to introduce additional internal border controls within the UK and the Sterling zone....does anyone know WHY???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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