Travel Lodge, Summerland/aquadrome And Earnshaw...

[pamplemousse]

The DTL already provides world-class sporting facilities.

 

Agreed - it's amazing we got passed over for Beijing when you think about it.

 

Utter cr*p. Summerland might have been a shambles but that was one hell of a pool. The scummy botched effort at the NSC doesn't compare.

[Static]

I know those older places were a bit run down and grotty at times but they were used. They would have been used even more if some imagination into what other facilities to add was used. Unfortunately our Department of Tourism AND leisure seem to lack that!

 

I thought the bowling alley and the Crescent were private establishments. Their closure surely can't really be pinned on the DTL.

 

You're quite right - they were private establishments. One closed to build even more apartments and the other went with the demise of the Castlemona, which still hasn't re-opened.

 

But summerland was government owned and nothing has been done to replace its leisure facilities that weren't sports related. If the government seriously wants to attract more tourists and provide improved leisure facilities for locals then they should look at creating something on that site.

 

Where what they'll probably do is to sell the site for a peppercorn fee to Travelodge to get it developed, probably at the detriment of the other hotels in Douglas.

 

I don't know the answer here but I'd think that a combined leisure faciltiy and hotel would be a viable option. But then wasn't that what they talked about for Lord Street? And isn't that going to be just a hotel now?

[triskelion]

The DTL already provides world-class sporting facilities.

 

Agreed - it's amazing we got passed over for Beijing when you think about it.

 

Utter cr*p. Summerland might have been a shambles but that was one hell of a pool. The scummy botched effort at the NSC doesn't compare.

Sport provision is as good as any where in the UK. Where have you seen better publicly-provided sporting facilities?

 

As for the Summerland pool; I have few but horrific memories of learning to swim there, especially the open drains at the side.

 

I take people's points about things like pool tables, play areas and such, but is the most effective way to provide them to build a new complex on the old Summerland site?

 

Albert, your point about this being 'a rich island,' has no validity unless your are willing to pay much more in order to maintain high-standard facilities in the face of an insufficient population. If you think its acceptable to pay £10-15 a go at the cinema in order to have top-quality facilities, good luck to you. In the real world that isn't going to work, especially on an Island with an ageing population who aren't going to use these facilities.

 

droid, you specifically said in the other thread: "I don't understand why it wasn't just rebuilt as it was." As for Summerland running at a loss, I'm just going on what Cambon said, who seemed pretty well-informed. I still don't see why I should need to have tried to book a 5-a-side court (I never have, nor have wanted to). I don't pretend they are easy to get hold of.

 

If there is such strong demand for these facilities, why is so little being provided by the private sector? If there isn't a good commercial environment for them, would it not be better to press the Government to work on that (grants, planning laws, etc), rather than demanding they build a new facility/complex/centre? At least then there is a chance more these things being established more regionally, rather than putting it all in Douglas. Again.

[ai_Droid]

I'm with Albert here, you seem to be so pro-establishment that there's a faint wiff...

 

droid, you specifically said in the other thread: "I don't understand why it wasn't just rebuilt as it was." As for Summerland running at a loss, I'm just going on what Cambon said, who seemed pretty well-informed. I still don't see why I should need to have tried to book a 5-a-side court (I never have, nor have wanted to). I don't pretend they are easy to get hold of.

 

Yeah, but with the bits that weren't needed removed, I did go on to qualify that. I think you have to be a user of such facilities to judge demand, and let me tell you, it's high.

 

If there is such strong demand for these facilities, why is so little being provided by the private sector? If there isn't a good commercial environment for them, would it not be better to press the Government to work on that (grants, planning laws, etc), rather than demanding they build a new facility/complex/centre? At least then there is a chance more these things being established more regionally, rather than putting it all in Douglas. Again.

 

If you created a place for commercial return, and there are such places, eg mount murray, the membership fee would price out the majority of the population.

[VinnieK]

You're quite right - they were private establishments. One closed to build even more apartments and the other went with the demise of the Castlemona, which still hasn't re-opened.

 

I'm not sure how this is that relevant to the issue though. The point is that they closed. It's possible that smaller, more modern establishments could survive, but I don't see why it's the government's duty to provide this - pool tables and 5 a side football don't really fall into the category of vital services or infrastructure. The most they should be prepared to do, in my opinion, is to try and attract private enterprise into providing such things.

 

But summerland was government owned and nothing has been done to replace its leisure facilities that weren't sports related. If the government seriously wants to attract more tourists and provide improved leisure facilities for locals then they should look at creating something on that site.

 

Summerland didn't help attract more tourists, or even that many locals back in the day, why should a similar development do so now?

 

I'm broadly in agreement with Triskelion on this matter. The government should by all means try to provide incentives for private provision of the facilities people are calling for, but that's about it.

[VinnieK]

If you created a place for commercial return, and there are such places, eg mount murray, the membership fee would price out the majority of the population.

 

Surely that reflects the fact that demand isn't as high as you suppose. If demand was high, and most importantly regular (rather than intermittant bursts of demand every bank holiday), membership fees could be lowered accordingly (instead of having to be high to compensate for dry periods).

[ai_Droid]

Surely that reflects the fact that demand isn't as high as you suppose. If demand was high, and most importantly regular (rather than intermittant bursts of demand every bank holiday), membership fees could be lowered accordingly (instead of having to be high to compensate for dry periods).

 

Or that demand is so high, you can afford to charge a premium that prices people out?

 

Pretty much everwhere these kinds of community sports facilities are provided by local authorities, not private enterprise.

[Tugger]

It's bizarre how triskelion is all for an albeit disguised subsidy for the Steam Packet (because that, in effect, is what the monopoly afforded by the user agreement amounts to) but against subsidies for sporting facilities for the ordinary people of the Isle of Man.

[triskelion]

I realise that by there very nature internet forums generally anti-establishment, so perhaps my (admittedly often sympathetic) views make me seem much more the Government-shill than I actually am? I'm only 21, so the chances of me being in any kind of senior position are zero.

 

I still don't take your point about having to be a service user though; as, so far as I can remember, I have never claimed demand was anything but high for these facilities. But would 2 more at the north of douglas prom make THAT much difference? As a service user, are you not bias towards the creation of yet more 5-a-s-side facilities?

 

In the case of sports facilities, which inevitably require large, purpose built buildings, they are going to be expensive. I was refering more to the other activities mentioned in this thread, like pool, play areas and such, which you have much lower set-up costs.

[triskelion]

It's bizarre how triskelion is all for an albeit disguised subsidy for the Steam Packet (because that, in effect, is what the monopoly afforded by the user agreement amounts to) but against subsidies for sporting facilities for the ordinary people of the Isle of Man.

What tosh. A monopoly is completely different to a subsidy, and its that kind of ignorance they most riled me about the entire steam packet debate. I have, in fact, been consistently against subsidising the Steam Packet, and advocated the monopoly only because no one has provided a case for any alternative arrangement.

 

If I was against Government subsidising sporting facilities for the so-called 'ordinary people,' surely I would be calling for the closure or sale of all Government-owned sports facilities, rather than questioning the apparently urgent need for large scale redevelopment of the Summerland site?

[slinkydevil]

I realise that by there very nature internet forums generally anti-establishment, so perhaps my (admittedly often sympathetic) views make me seem much more the Government-shill than I actually am? I'm only 21, so the chances of me being in any kind of senior position are zero.

 

I'm 16, female and very pretty - wanna date me?

[thebees]

Summerland could have been great, there were some really good events there. The problems with Summerland were the food, the 1970's styling and the staff, not all staff, I hasten to add, just a few but that is all it takes, its sad to see they were moved to the Villa.

 

I agree with the Aquadrome pool being far superior to that pile of crap they call a National Sports Centre, I don't go, the freezing water is a little off putting, not to mention the illnesses you get every time you go. Badminton or bowling as a family day out?

 

As for that woman being off sick at the tourist board, would these slack asses be off sick if they didn't get sick pay? doubt it, coppers, posties and government workers - nervous debility for the win and a free pension at the tax payers expense to boot, they are worse than DHSS benefit scammers.

[Xpert]

As for that woman being off sick at the tourist board, would these slack asses be off sick if they didn't get sick pay? doubt it, coppers, posties and government workers - nervous debility for the win and a free pension at the tax payers expense to boot, they are worse than DHSS benefit scammers.

 

 

Maybe she's not off sick ...maybe she's off because she's had a blazing row with one of her bosses ....Maybe .....

[VinnieK]

Surely that reflects the fact that demand isn't as high as you suppose. If demand was high, and most importantly regular (rather than intermittant bursts of demand every bank holiday), membership fees could be lowered accordingly (instead of having to be high to compensate for dry periods).

 

Or that demand is so high, you can afford to charge a premium that prices people out?

 

In which case you would expect some enterprising individuals would have siezed on the opportunity to cater to the massive demand by offering similar facilities for a lower price. Yet this hasn't happened. It's entirely possible that the government hasn't done enough to advertise the possibilities for commercial expansion in the leisure industry, but I'm willing to bet that part of the reason is also that there simply isn't enough demand to justify the investment or risk.

 

I just don't see why the government should provide more in the way of leisure and sports when there are already existing facilities. If these facilities are inadequate, what should we reasonably expect for a community the size of ours? There's naturally a great temptation to demand that the government provides where ever and whenever there is a perceived need, regardless of whether or not its justifiable. For instance, you were recently advocating the construction of a velodrome, which seems a bit much given that the entirity of the UK only has 22 of the things. Just because there is some demand doesn't mean that it should automatically be met by the Government. If there were absolutely nothing to do on the Island, I'd probably be more sympathetic to demands on here for more government involvement, but that's far from being the case, even if they are running at full capacity.

[Tugger]

It's bizarre how triskelion is all for an albeit disguised subsidy for the Steam Packet (because that, in effect, is what the monopoly afforded by the user agreement amounts to) but against subsidies for sporting facilities for the ordinary people of the Isle of Man.

What tosh. A monopoly is completely different to a subsidy, and its that kind of ignorance they most riled me about the entire steam packet debate. I have, in fact, been consistently against subsidising the Steam Packet, and advocated the monopoly only because no one has provided a case for any alternative arrangement.

 

If I was against Government subsidising sporting facilities for the so-called 'ordinary people,' surely I would be calling for the closure or sale of all Government-owned sports facilities, rather than questioning the apparently urgent need for large scale redevelopment of the Summerland site?

 

Sorry chum, a state-granted monopoly is very much a disguised subsidy. You can bleat to the contrary as much as you like, but it won't change that underlying fact.