Fossils Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 MEA add on 16% to charges, 2% of which is to pay for loans therefore 14% is neededto pay for the increase in the cost of the gas that they import. Manx Gas buy their gas from the MEA Manx Gas add 20-something% onto charges Who's profiteering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 MEA add on 16% to charges, 2% of which is to pay for loans therefore 14% is neededto pay for the increase in the cost of the gas that they import. Manx Gas buy their gas from the MEA Manx Gas add 20-something% onto charges Who's profiteering? What is the MEA charging Manx Gas for the gas it purchases? Have they increased their prices by more than 14% to Manx Gas? Is Manx Gas passing on the same % increase in its wholesale price onto the retail price? For example a 14% in wholesale price on £1,000 worth of gas is £1,000 x 1.14 = £1,140; pass on a similar 14% increase to the consumer (on the basis that gas prices have gone up by 14%) = £1,140 x 1.14 =£1,300. So at the end of the chain the price would have risen by 30%. This is exactly what happened with dairy products in NZ earlier this year. The price of milk went up by about 25% so the farmer got 25% more; then the distributor increased their costs by 25%; the processor followed suit adding another 25%; and finally the supermarkets also did the same 25% increase on the price they paid the processor. End result was that the price of dairy products rose by a $ amount very significantly greater than the increase received by the farmer. Of course they all said that the reason for the increase to the consumer was that the cost of milk had risen by 25%. When the press exposed what was going on there was at least some reduction in price. If the percentage increases are small and the above happens it does not show through so readily. But when there are large percentage increases in the base price if the same percentages are applied at each stage in the chain to justify increases the end result can be massive price hikes. Is it possible that the same thing is happening here? The problem is that the punter in the street really has little way of knowing what is happening and relies on politicians and the honesty of suppliers to protect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideload Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 MEA add on 16% to charges, 2% of which is to pay for loans therefore 14% is neededto pay for the increase in the cost of the gas that they import. Manx Gas buy their gas from the MEA Manx Gas add 20-something% onto charges Who's profiteering? The MEA might have been buying at a higher rate than the retail rate the consumers have been charged up to now. Not all our power comes from gas either, which could explain a bit of the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Would the MEA's larger customer base also have an impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Would the MEA's larger customer base also have an impact? You see...they have us over a barrel (no pun intended). We can only guess at why the increases are so big - we just have to pay them. "Theirs not to reason why" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 We can only guess at why the increases are so big - we just have to pay them. Speculators, shoite government buy/storage facilities and piss poor utility management. The biggest load of bollocks since the 1990 'big bollocks convention'. People will end up dying in the winter for this, and most of them will be old. Several politicians and financiers need to be machine-gunned to death for this - scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 This has been gone over many times in other threads by myself and others, but here it is again. The MEA doesn't buy gas then sell it on to Manx Gas, it acts as a Buying/Handling Agent and charges a minimul handling chare for doing so. The MEA has for a long time now, bought gas in bulk at a lower unit price for future use. Manx Gas has , as far as i know, only done this once and that was recently when being investigated by the OFT. Before that, they have always bought at current market prices and passed all the cost straight onto the Consumer. That is why the MEA can save on spending and Manx Gas can't. A sad reflection on all this is that, WE, the Tax Payer, through the MEA's spending, paid for the last Pressure Reduction Plant on the MEA system to allow Manx Gas to recieve gas at the pressure they use. It wasn't needed for the power station as that works at a higher pressure. Then they talk about overheads ? The set-up stinks but it's only when the price goes up do we see people complain. The voters and people of the Isle of man have to get off their backsides and keep on applying pressure untill this rip off is sorted. Manx Gas is part of Babcock and Browns Investment Portfollio, no more, no less. It's prime job is to make as much money as it can for the shareholders, that's all. It's only the local office, imo, who give a dam about the local people. To Babcock and Brown the Isle of Man is just somewhere they've invested money. But then as far as i've been able to make out, Babcock and Browns Investments would run rings around to Isle of Man Governments. I think the Government are to scared to take the Big Boys on. One of the reasons the gas and electricity prices have shot up so much in the UK is that the Major Power comanies, 1/ Supply both power and gas, and 2/ they all bought gas in massive bulk some years ago at a cheaper rate. Now that has run out, there is a what looks to be a massive price increase all at once. Due to the fact they now have to buy at the current market price. Yet the Major Power companies have been made to go before a UK Government commity to epxplain their increases, actions and buying/pricing stratergy. Not seen or heard of anything like that here apart from them just leaving it up to the OFT who have minimul powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 It was nice to see someone driving an MEA wagon putting something back into the community (site) today. I spotted him heading towards the amenity site at St Johns at around lunchtime today with a load of garden clippings on the back. He is probably putting his weekend earnings in to help pay off the loan, and helping old ladies with their gardening. Do all MEA drivers take the firm's vehicle home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLD-Bloke Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 It was nice to see someone driving an MEA wagon putting something back into the community (site) today. I spotted him heading towards the amenity site at St Johns at around lunchtime today with a load of garden clippings on the back. He is probably putting his weekend earnings in to help pay off the loan, and helping old ladies with their gardening. Do all MEA drivers take the firm's vehicle home? Engineers, linesmen and jointers do if they're on call -when power is off, every minute wasted driving to HQ is to be avoided - but two points need to be made. 1. The MEA has grass and plants of its own that need to be kept in order - substation plots and the HQ buildings that they're obliged to keep in good order by covenants - so it might have been MEA grass/plant waste. 2. All MEA vehicles have a satellite tracker fitted - if the bod was using it for his own purposes he will be caught! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blixo Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Can I mention the incinerator? energy from waste anyone.... waste from waste more like are we still importing oil to run the thing? how much has that lump of shit cost the IOM taxpayer? Why haven't heads rolled over that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Can I mention the incinerator? energy from waste anyone.... waste from waste more like are we still importing oil to run the thing? how much has that lump of shit cost the IOM taxpayer? Why haven't heads rolled over that one. Oh jeez. No, oil is not still being used to run it. Indeed, according to a recent Tynwald movement debate (for kerb-side recycling), it is close to capacity in rubbish. It powers itself and exports 5MW to el Grid. It is, however, still very, very ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Attached is from Saturday's Guardian - it discusses and questions the direct link between oil prices and gas prices. Interesting background. Implies gas prices should not be increasing in line with oil. Once again lucky consumers.... Why is the price of gas linked to oil? Ask the average energy expert this question and they will mutter about tradition. Yet the effect of tethering gas to the high oil price was painfully apparent this week, after British Gas announced it would jack up prices by 35%. Government officials have estimated the link means gas bills can be up to five times dearer, while others believe it costs consumers in the EU £42bn a year. One reason for oil prices being so high is supply is struggling to keep up with demand, but campaigners say there is no such problem with gas. No wonder Adam Scorer, of Energywatch, describes the practice as "irrational, toxic and punishing for customers." Yet even energy suppliers privately describe the link as an embarrassment. It dates back a few decades, when the gas market was so small that traders had little choice but to take the oil market as a guide. Traditionally, industrial users who found oil too costly could swap to gas (and vice versa). Nowadays, oil is primarily a transport fuel. Hiroshi Hashimoto, of the International Energy Agency, estimates that only 10% of Britain's gas needs could be met by oil. So the link is hard to defend, and campaigners and consultants have been looking at ways of replacing it. That would require making gas markets a more transparent place. It would also mean taking on gas suppliers who benefit from the link; and no one expects that fight to begin soon. And you thought markets followed the laws of supply and demand. Aditya Chakrabortty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Government officials have estimated the link means gas bills can be up to five times dearer, while others believe it costs consumers in the EU £42bn a year. One reason for oil prices being so high is supply is struggling to keep up with demand, but campaigners say there is no such problem with gas. i.e. £42bn effectively straight into the bank accounts of speculators - all paid for by Joe Public. We are paying big style for this credit crunch, instigated by the same feckin speculators who are still ripping us off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 It powers itself and exports 5MW to el Grid. orly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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