Gawne's 'green' Finance Centre.

[Skeddan]

As I read it to be a 'net exporter of clean energy' doesn't mean having to balance against non-clean energy - only to export more clean energy than the clean energy one imports. If so, it sounds very commendable, but it probably isn't nearly as far reaching as it might sound - but probably something that could realistically be achieved by 2020.

[Albert Tatlock]

...thus we need nearer 100 if you could store energy over the non productive periods...

Excess electricity could always be diverted and used to separate hydrogen from water which can be bottled as a fuel for suitably adapted cars. Around 50kWh is currently needed to manufacture the energy of a gallon of petrol in the form of hydrogen. That makes it expensive to produce of you dedicate electricity supplies to doing it, but employing off-peak turbines to do it makes it worthwhile e.g. If you have 10 X 3.5MW turbines off-line from the grid supply, and dedicated to producing hydrogen for an hour, they will produce a 700 gallon equivalent.

[triskelion]

We don't have the space for biomass. You're a bit clueless really aren't you?

 

Yeah, apparently. But then you aren't really qualified to judge. We aren't talking major assets here, are we? Otherwise you wouldn't be pushing wind mills that depend on back-up we don't have or small experimental coastal systems.

 

With better plantations we could easily produce enough wood (plus things like waste straw, and organic materials that are difficult to compost) to bring in a number of regional CHP plants. The waste ash can then be used as an activator in the ADs.

[ai_Droid]

Yeah, apparently. But then you aren't really qualified to judge. We aren't talking major assets here, are we? Otherwise you wouldn't be pushing wind mills that depend on back-up we don't have or small experimental coastal systems.

 

I've no clue what you're on about to be honest, and it's becoming increasingly clear you don't either.

 

Wind turbines that may not operate 100% of the time are infinately better than nothing at all. You talk about this stuff like it's theoretical. It isn't, this stuff is fairly mature and it exists elsewhere. We've got fek all though other than a broken efw plant and a tiny hydro facility. Saying we're 'bitten by the bug' is just lies, we've got nothing.

 

With better plantations we could easily produce enough wood (plus things like waste straw, and organic materials that are difficult to compost) to bring in a number of regional CHP plants. The waste ash can then be used as an activator in the ADs.

 

Rot. Biomass is well suited to a country with a lot of space. We haven't. We've got a lot of wind, and a lot of coast, using that makes far more sense.

[manshimajin]

Oil now down 20% on 11 Juy peak - what impact on gas prices?

[ponderer]

I remember reading an article during the 1970s oil crisis in the New Scientist about the renewable energy potential of the Isle of Man. I seem to remember it focused on the onshore and offshore wind potential - parts of the Island are amongst the windiest locations in Europe - the tidal power potential (one suggestion was an under water turbine near Kitterland I think), wave power, biomass, and solar water heating. There was a whole range of suggestions It also stressed energy efficiency.

 

The potential is huge. But not a lot happened then...

 

The key is to find the right mix of different types of renewable sources which can complement one another rather than picking a single source. And to take low carbon design of buildings extremely seriously. Since the mid 1970s onshore wind has become cost effective (I think wind turbines look great but they are controversial - one suggestion a while ago to put turbines on the south side of South Barrule seemed rather optimistic from this point of view). Offshore wind is now beginning to take off - even most recently experimenting with floating wind turbines - but is still fairly expensive unless the cost of carbon is factored in. Cornwall is experimenting with wave power. Even Solar PV costs are falling all the time as technologies improve. Why not use the flexibility of manx legislation to innovate? Feed in tariffs (eg in Germany) can make it more attractive for local schemes to sell power back to the grid.

 

Albert is right that there may be scope to use hydrogen as a store of energy. Iceland is a leader in this - I think I read that it plans to convert the entire Icelandic economy on hydrogen within around 20 years. Hawaii also has a project. Again, an island has scope to be flexible and innovate with hydrogen transport infrastructure etc.

 

If the island can produce a surplus of electricity then even plug in hybrid vehicles are making huge progress due to improvements in battery technology and can potentially even be used to store electricity.

 

There is huge potential. And there would be big spin offs for the finance sector through becoming involved in carbon finance and financing offsets etc. if the island could get a reputation for innovating in this area.

 

However some very hard nosed commercial decisions are needed alongside the creativity if the island is to get anywhere near achieving Phil Gawne's vision.

[Roger Smelly]

What i meant was that we should have a mix off everything, basically if the wind is blowing and the turbines are producing energy why not just have the power stations running on less capacity ?

 

What this would mean is when the turbines are inactive we still have the power stations as back up.

 

Look at jurby and the northern plain it is windy all the time also why not stick a few on the mountain it seems such a waste of natural rescources not to do anything with it.

 

Also solar now is going down the hydrogen splitting route instead of storing the power in batteries it is now being used to do what stan myer did in the 70's & 80's and splitting water into its parts

 

Over the next few years green or what i like to call free energys will become more and more useful.

 

What you selfish fools who don't want wind farms etc have got to think about is the generations behind us, it will be there world one day.

[Sebrof]

Wind farms are only practicable when they supply a relatively small proportion of total power. The fluctuations in output make it increasingly difficult and expensive to regulate the supply if wind is responsible for more than around 20% of total electricity generation.

 

One way around this is to store the extra energy somehow, and the only practicable way to do this in the island would be to pump water up into a high storage dam, which could then power a hydro plant when the wind dropped. The cost of building a dam then adds to the already high cost of wind-produced electricity. However, it may be a price worth paying.

 

Scandalously, the British government, under pressure from the nuclear industry, dropped research into a more promising form of power generation - wave and tidal power. Nonetheless, research is now starting again, and wave power holds considerable promise. Where you have wind and water (eg: the IOM), you also have waves.

 

The island has considerable tidal races at the Calf and at Ayre. The Calf in particular is a very promising site, and generators could be placed there with very little adverse effect on the view.

 

I am no expert, but if I were the Chief Electrician, I would already have commissioned research into power generation at the Calf. I would hope that there would be surplus power to sell to Scotland, and the Scots could then make up the difference when the tide turned and output fell, four times a day.

 

G

[triskelion]

I would think any attempts to place developments near the Calf would swiftly find themselves in planning Hell, regardless of the generation potential. The area is a designated nature reserve, so the placement of even underwater assets, plus the cabling etc. would inevitably have an adverse effect on the area, and thus make siting anything there difficult.

[Sebrof]

I would think any attempts to place developments near the Calf would swiftly find themselves in planning Hell, regardless of the generation potential. The area is a designated nature reserve, so the placement of even underwater assets, plus the cabling etc. would inevitably have an adverse effect on the area, and thus make siting anything there difficult.

 

As others have observed, we are going to have to start thinking the unthinkable. The great advantage of tidal power is that much, if not all, of the equipment could be below sea level.

[jimbms]

I am just wpndering when we will wake up to the fact that a HHO powered CHP unit utilising self distilled seawater is a viable option

[Sebrof]

I am just wpndering when we will wake up to the fact that a HHO powered CHP unit utilising self distilled seawater is a viable option

 

There is nothing new under the sun. In the thirties, Dolphin Square in London derived its hot water/ch from waste heat pumped under the Thames from Battersea power station.

 

Nowadays, of course, they no longer build power stations in the middle of cities.