Desperate Dan Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Do we have more chavs per head of population? I'm sure we do. walking through town with the missus tonight you couldn't see for burberry caps, tracksuits, rockports and hooded tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Laxey Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Cannabis is oh so cool isn't it. People who take it can have an in laugh about things like having the munchies and stuff like that. Real radical and 'modern' comedians love the subject, This goes for our TV and BBC radio celebrities such as Jonathan Ross and many, many BBC Radio 1 DJs. So it must be alright then mustn't it. The thing is, for lots of adults it really is alright. They can be 'naughty' and supposedly have a good harmless time into the bargain. And today's police, after all, aren't really that bothered about so called mild drugs anyway. But of all the people I knew at school, the ones who have seriously gone off the rails - severe psychiatric problems, prison etc. etc. were the early dope smokers. So just because cannabis is OK for YOU who are reading this - and I know you users will defend use of that stuff with a passion - does not mean it is alright for ALL of society. Just because its alright with you with your stable middle-class world. For a small Island I wonder how it is possible for the mass of drugs to get here in the first place. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Jack - the people you talk about (e.g psychiatric problems, prison etc) - have you ever thought that they'd be heading down that route regardless, with or without cannabis? I know people who did dope, and are perfectly fine holding good jobs, there are others who've been "inside" numerous occasions. I also know people who didn't do dope, and are perfectly fine holding good jobs, while there are others who've also been "inside". Generally I found the greatest factor that affected the "path" of an individual as such was their family, friends and upbringing. Whether they smoke dope, wore sandal or had ginger hair was besides the point. I know what you're saying, and I follow the law because its the law - and I'm generally a law abiding citizen. It doesn't necessarily mean its right. I tend to look at it from a scientific perspective - I don't believe there's any Scientific reason why Cannabis should be illegal when cigarettes and alcohol aren't. Cannabis tends to be so frowned upon because of the label and the propoganda. Cigarettes and alcohol are far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 In terms of the study - I feel the Government aren't really attacking it correctly. There's a big "oooo kids are doing drugs and drinking" - have they thought to actually ASK the kids why they're doing it? I believe the Government is partly to blame due to the lacke lack of social and entertainment developments, just **** apartments. Thing is, when I was a teenager - people got drunk, did silly things, were sick and learnt. Probably some people from the "older" generation could agree. I'm sure if that survey was done 8 years ago, it'd have similar results. Teaching kids about liver damage, kidney damage, depression etc isn't going to stop them drinking. I mean, jeez people pick up a box and see "YOU WILL DIE" on the front and go "ahh well" then light a fag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Laxey Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 concrete. Thanks for your reasoned response. I know I may make myself unpopular for talking against what appears to be a popular drug. I also realise the subject has been well thrashed out on these forums and that it is a seemingly endless and emotive subject. I just worry that cannabis is given such a trendy and supposedly harmless reputation. For most folk it may be a harmless recreational drug. But the people who expound the stuff can only talk for themselves. I have seen terrible effects cannabis can have on people. Yes, maybe it was the trigger, I don't know, but it certainly played a big part in their lives. In any case, it is far too readily available and I just don't understand why it should be on our Island. Our society as a whole does not have the knowledge to allow young people to make up their own minds about drugs. That is why, supposedly, there are laws in place to safeguard. Perhaps those that make the laws and enforce them are into the occasional spliff. So I say again, maybe its been OK for them in their secure middle class lives, but are they considering their responsibility to the rest of society . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Cardboard Box Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Jack is right. A Radio Four programme a few months ago, and articles in the Independent on Sunday and the Observer pinpointed research which showed that: Whilst the brain is still developing and connecting neural pathways - before the age of eighteen - the use of cannabis increases the risk of later psychotic illness by a factor of SIX. Cannabis for young people is dangerous. For adults, whose brains have developed, not so much a problem. Jack also writes in a disturbingly familiar style too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack from Laxey Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Not too disturbingly or indeed familiar, I hope, David. Could I just point out - I didn't really want to write an essay right now on this subject but - I have friends whose lives have been greatly harmed by their use of alcohol. They really do become demons with that stuff. However, for them cannabis seems to be a far more suitable and less dangerous affair. Now its not my bag at all, I have to say, (I'm strictly a lager lout, albeit a middle aged docile one) but I do believe I have a fair and balanced viewpoint here. Alcohol has to be treated with respect. I just wish society would treat cannabis and other substances with the respect they surely demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kite Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Jack is right. Whilst the brain is still developing and connecting neural pathways - before the age of eighteen - the use of cannabis increases the risk of later psychotic illness by a factor of SIX. Cannabis for young people is dangerous. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> so what is the risk of later psychotic illness Dave? just wondering because it sounds like one of those figures where the original risk was so low anyway it effects about one person per 100K,, possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Cardboard Box Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 The risk of developing a psychotic illness is six times greater if cannabis is used while the brain is developing. No idea what the overall figures are per 100,000, but I have known dozens of psychotic young people struggling to survive - mostly I have to say, young men. I am sure that social and health workers and teachers in the Island have had the same experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Cardboard Box Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 And on the subject of alcohol: Some research was done on the UK prison population - murderers and people with really bad histories of violence. It was found that a common factor with them was that they were exposed to alcohol at an early age, usually starting about 11 and early teens, and they were significant consumers at that early age. It is apparently a similar problem to cannabis - the neural pathways are still developing, and heavy alcohol consumption had some adverse effect on the bits which should control violent tendencies. If true, that is why the Isle of Man figures for 15/16 year olds alcohol and drug consumption are worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 In general, I tend not to trust extrapolated survey results. I'm also very dubious of the statistical significance of small percentage differences when such a small survey sample is used. So aside from the actual issues -> I'm simply not convinced by the maths. Official or not. Meanwhile - does anyone know anyone who took part in this survey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parchedpeas Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Surveys like this are wrothwhile, but they also have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Whilst it is likely that we do have a bigger problem than the other nations, I'm sure the figures were inflated across the board - everybody lies in surveys! I'm sure there is a trend towards larger consumption of drugs and booze on the Isle of Man - that goes back to the fact that the young people are not given many alternatives for entertainment. It is common on the Island for kids to be drinking and smoking at 14 and 15 years old, the step the cannabis is only a small one for those inclined (many are never inclined, many see it as an equivalent evil to drinking, and they're probably right!). Education is worthwhile, but it will never stop those who 'want' to do it, and it cannot be denied - being pissed or stoned IS fun. It's only the after effects that are the problem (increased likelihood of violent behaviour in the case of alcohol, vast weight gain due to increased consumption of Pringles in the case of weed). If we want a society whereby we can keep kids 'cleaner' (never clean, because, as with the adult population there will always be the curious sort who turn to beer and fags and drugs because they actually really want to) we really need to invest in youth services, encourage more youth friendly business to the Island, stop taking away the things that kids enjoy and start spreading some of the entertainment OUTSIDE of the capital - recently I was told how it is almost impossible for a non-driver using public transport from the north, to watch a film over 90 minutes in a Douglas cinema and get home without walking! Faced with having to walk 20 miles home, or just going out and getting pissed, or round to your mates house and getting stoned, what would YOU do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 DTCB is right about the association between the use of cannabis and later psychotic illness. Now it may well be that these subjects were predisposed to developing the illness in the first place, however, there is a proven and definite link between the use of cannabis and the subsequent development of the mental illness - of which, schizophrenia is common. Also, once the illness is being treated, the patient is advised to avoid using cannabis and continued or renewed use coincides with a marked deterrioration in the patients condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 ""How many students had been drunk three or more times in the last 30 days" I don't remember them asking me.... perhaps we could have upped the score on the UK. I bet they asked the business school students. " you're not the standard student remember, you're a 'mature student' dirty old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadbin Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Do you know anyone who was actually polled? I don't and neither does my brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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