Port St.mary Butchered

[parchedpeas]

What no one seems to have mentioned is that John's shop regularly had queues out of the door and, from having stood in the queues on many occasions, I know that people came from miles away for his meat. It certainly wasn't lack of local support which forced him to close. The short-termist, neo-Thatcherite comments on this thread are very sad. I am sure that a number of other local businesses will see a fall in trade because John has closed, and fewer people will now travel to PSM. There really IS a wider issue here - if we want small Manx communities like PSM to continue to be diverse and viable, we need to find a way to support small businesses like John's. Otherwise ... look over the water and see what happens - no small and individual shops, no Post Offices, no pubs ... dead villages! It's happening there and could happen here!

 

This is a sensible comment, but some people won't realise what they have until it is gone. I've see some towns in the UK- not villages, but towns - become little more than residential estates for the large Cities down the line. They lose all identity, and the community goes with it. This is NOT all about economics. Sometimes supporting a loss-making venture has subsidiary benefits down the line. For example, someone going to buy a pound of sausages at the Butcher might also buy a birthday card form the post office, some groceries from the veg shop etc. Having these shops available to a local community is important, and in some cases they should be encouraged to stay there.

 

The cruel profit / loss balance sheet thinking portrayed on this forum is crazy. Go to any city centre in the UK now and look around the high street. You have massive corporations dominating, and every city centre looks the same. People commute sometimes miles into town to buy simple things that they used to be able to get locally. All the bread tastes the same. The 'choice' and 'diversity' that you believe you have when you stand in Liverpool City Centre is no choice, or that made by one corporate buyer working in Head Office of MonoGlot PLC months before you even get your wallet out.

 

Yes a surf shop is good news. But losing a local retailer of a basic necessity (ie a food stuff) is NOT good for the long term future of Port St Mary. Before long we will all be at the mercy of Tesco / Shoprite.

 

On a side note, in the town where I live, population about 12,000, there are four bakeries making their own bread every day, five butchers shops usually serving meat from their own family farm, four grocers who do the same. There is also about fifteen restaurants and three bookies. Real community, like in the olden days it can be done, if people don't worship at the altar of Tesco!

[Keith brief]

Personally, I would love to see an end to the corporate Tesco McTowns but it's not going to happen.

 

High Street fashion with it's Chinese seatshop pile-'em-high, sell-'em cheap culture will always work as the majority of people will always subscribe to cheap items with one eye on what everyone else is wearing. At one time, people who were able, would embrace quality and individualism - it's not the case these days. Price is everything as well as the desire to all look the same.

 

Take a look at the independent shops in Douglas. They'll have a handful of people in them at best whereas Principles, Next et al with their low-grade mass-produced sweat shop wares will be full.

 

Price is also everything with food. The majority don't care where food is from, how unethically the meat is prepared or the air-miles. Organic food is sneered at as a "middle class thing". I was looking for organic potatoes the other day at Tescos. The only ones available from Kenya! Taste isn't a consideration either as rather than have fresh seasonal produce, the demand is for tasteless, bland produce grown in politunnels (sp) all year round.

 

Ask most kids what they'd want as the next franchise dealer opening in Douglas and they'd probably say Burgar King.

[slinkydevil]

The cruel profit / loss balance sheet thinking portrayed on this forum is crazy.

 

It's not crazy at all. What are you proposing, this 'well supported' butcher should be subsidised? By whom? What about the grocers or the surf shop or the chippy? When do you qualify for a subsidy, if you are failing?

 

It's crap for them and for Port St Mary, but what is your answer? And don't say they need supporting from the community - we have already qualified that one by the queues of people pouring out of the butcher's door.

[parchedpeas]

The cruel profit / loss balance sheet thinking portrayed on this forum is crazy.

 

It's not crazy at all. What are you proposing, this 'well supported' butcher should be subsidised? By whom? What about the grocers or the surf shop or the chippy? When do you qualify for a subsidy, if you are failing?

 

It's crap for them and for Port St Mary, but what is your answer? And don't say they need supporting from the community - we have already qualified that one by the queues of people pouring out of the butcher's door.

 

well, for an example: Some towns on the Isle of Man pay for a swimming pool through the rates system which most of the ratepayers will never use. When they do want to use it, they have to pay again for an entrance fee to get in. However, as a swimming pool is deemed an essential item for a town to have, nobody questions it. Many childless parents pay through taxation for a school in every town, even though they never send any kids there, and their own parents paid for their education through their taxes before them. Nobody questions this, because every town needs schools. Apparently.

 

In your model, we would all have one school, one hospital, one fire station, one swimming pool etc. These would all be situated in Douglas, probably, because that's where most of the population live. These would all be paid for by direct cost, that is only those who use the service would pay for it, making it exhorbitantly expensive for those who use it, but saving money for those who don't. Over time, the population would all shift towards Douglas, because that's where the services are. Then Douglas would become a (bigger) pit.

 

Sometimes, local towns need supporting even by those who don't live there because the alternative is seeing a creep creep of people clogging up the big town, in this example, Douglas.

 

I'm not suggesting subsidy is the only answer, I'm merely highlighting that brutal economics don't always solve every problem, and until one can develop a PERFECT market (nobody yet has) it is not always the best thing for everybody.

[parchedpeas]

Ask most kids what they'd want as the next franchise dealer opening in Douglas and they'd probably say Burgar King.

 

Not unless they were from Som-ar-set they wouldn't

[slinkydevil]

Sometimes, local towns need supporting even by those who don't live there because the alternative is seeing a creep creep of people clogging up the big town, in this example, Douglas.

 

I'm not suggesting subsidy is the only answer, I'm merely highlighting that brutal economics don't always solve every problem, and until one can develop a PERFECT market (nobody yet has) it is not always the best thing for everybody.

 

My local butcher, a manx independant butcher, is 5 mins walk from my house - so I'm not going to go to Port St Mary to support another one over them or should I?

 

There's never going to be a perfect market, someone somewhere will lose out.

[WTF]

as mentioned before

 

 

 

tesco already sell diving gear

 

 

chocolate sauce for 'muff diving'?

[Diverchelle]

Hi all

 

I only found out about this thread today and it's been an interesting read....

 

First let me introduce myself as the owner of the dive centre that is mentioned in these posts. We have been in operation for 5 years and our roots go back further than that.

 

There is no great plot behind the sale of the Marina building. Since the closure of Port Erin Marine Lab, Liverpool University have been looking to sell their remaining properties on the Island. They offered the building for sale, we agreed to buy it as an empty building. I believe John Corrin had previously been offered a long lease but had turned it down, if he had accepted then Liverpool Uni would have sold it with a sitting tenant. Instead he agreed a shorter term which meant that his lease came to an end.

 

Our dive centre currently operates on the Balthane Estate, which isn't terribly handy because our dive charter boat is moored in Port St Mary. Many of you may not know but most diving and snorkeling trips run out of Port St Mary, and our divers travel from all over the Island. So we hope that the dive centre will increase visitors.

 

We live in Port St Mary and our children attend SPLM, where we are involved in running the toddler group and PTFA. We have a real interest in a vibrant village life for Port St Mary. We too are concerned about the empty shop units and have tried for nearly 3 years to purchase a similar property, without success. It seems that some owners do not want to actually sell and in the meantime those buildings are deteriorating rapidly. We have wasted months negotiating.

 

The Marina building has been declared unfit for habitation and getting it back into a safe, liveable condition will cost us a fair sum of money. There is no development company involved. The original room layout of the building will be restored and we will be living there ourselves. We have acres of wood chip covered by layers of paint to remove in order to renovate the building, not to mention the dry rot, wet rot, woodworm, unsafe wiring, poor fire protection. We wouldn't be going into this unless we thought it was the right thing for us to do. If the building was left for another winter it probably would have required demolition.

 

We hope that the Dive Centre will bring people into the village. We know that they come down to use our dive boat, but rarely stop by the shops. We hope that while their cylinders are being filled they will pop into the chemist or the newsagents or the DIY store or any of the other small traders in the village. We also have a full diary of bookings for visitors from the UK to come and dive with us for 4 months of next year. That means 12 people staying for a week, and I can guarantee they will eat out every night, buy sandwiches from the Co-op and snacks from the newsagents etc, as well as staying in local accommodation.

 

I need to end one rumour.....we're not intending to sell surfing gear. However, we will have a chandlery operation which will serve the South of the Island.

 

We have a commercial diving team up that serves the film, harbour, marine survey and construction industries, both here and in the UK. We train recreational divers to the highest level. We provide air services to the fire brigade. We are contractors to various arms of government across a range of services. We provide diver support to the local fishing boats. We run snorkel and lifesaving courses for children and adults. We train first aiders.

 

We are not some fly by night operation. This is our business, we work hard at it. Tesco dive gear is not competition for our business - their wetsuits are cheap but very poor quality and not suited to diving in the Irish Sea. We're not operating some 'flaky business model' and we are well placed to survive the credit crunch. We're not ruthless landlords leasing the building to make a quick buck. We're hard working local people, trying to balance home and work, whilst bringing up our family in a community that we contribute to. Our children have been incredibly patient in the time they have to spend with us at our current premises. Diving for most people is a hobby and so lots happens in evenings and weekends. We hope that the new dive centre with us living over will allow us to balance family and work a little better. I hope that we will be an asset to Port St Mary.

 

Finally, may I express my very best wishes to John Corrin and hope that he does manage to resume trading within the village.

[Sebrof]

Hi all

 

I only found out about this thread today and it's been an interesting read....

 

First let me introduce myself as the owner of the dive centre that is mentioned in these posts. We have been in operation for 5 years and our roots go back further than that.

 

There is no great plot behind the sale of the Marina building. Since the closure of Port Erin Marine Lab, Liverpool University have been looking to sell their remaining properties on the Island. They offered the building for sale, we agreed to buy it as an empty building. I believe John Corrin had previously been offered a long lease but had turned it down, if he had accepted then Liverpool Uni would have sold it with a sitting tenant. Instead he agreed a shorter term which meant that his lease came to an end.

 

Our dive centre currently operates on the Balthane Estate, which isn't terribly handy because our dive charter boat is moored in Port St Mary. Many of you may not know but most diving and snorkeling trips run out of Port St Mary, and our divers travel from all over the Island. So we hope that the dive centre will increase visitors.

 

We live in Port St Mary and our children attend SPLM, where we are involved in running the toddler group and PTFA. We have a real interest in a vibrant village life for Port St Mary. We too are concerned about the empty shop units and have tried for nearly 3 years to purchase a similar property, without success. It seems that some owners do not want to actually sell and in the meantime those buildings are deteriorating rapidly. We have wasted months negotiating.

 

The Marina building has been declared unfit for habitation and getting it back into a safe, liveable condition will cost us a fair sum of money. There is no development company involved. The original room layout of the building will be restored and we will be living there ourselves. We have acres of wood chip covered by layers of paint to remove in order to renovate the building, not to mention the dry rot, wet rot, woodworm, unsafe wiring, poor fire protection. We wouldn't be going into this unless we thought it was the right thing for us to do. If the building was left for another winter it probably would have required demolition.

 

We hope that the Dive Centre will bring people into the village. We know that they come down to use our dive boat, but rarely stop by the shops. We hope that while their cylinders are being filled they will pop into the chemist or the newsagents or the DIY store or any of the other small traders in the village. We also have a full diary of bookings for visitors from the UK to come and dive with us for 4 months of next year. That means 12 people staying for a week, and I can guarantee they will eat out every night, buy sandwiches from the Co-op and snacks from the newsagents etc, as well as staying in local accommodation.

 

I need to end one rumour.....we're not intending to sell surfing gear. However, we will have a chandlery operation which will serve the South of the Island.

 

We have a commercial diving team up that serves the film, harbour, marine survey and construction industries, both here and in the UK. We train recreational divers to the highest level. We provide air services to the fire brigade. We are contractors to various arms of government across a range of services. We provide diver support to the local fishing boats. We run snorkel and lifesaving courses for children and adults. We train first aiders.

 

We are not some fly by night operation. This is our business, we work hard at it. Tesco dive gear is not competition for our business - their wetsuits are cheap but very poor quality and not suited to diving in the Irish Sea. We're not operating some 'flaky business model' and we are well placed to survive the credit crunch. We're not ruthless landlords leasing the building to make a quick buck. We're hard working local people, trying to balance home and work, whilst bringing up our family in a community that we contribute to. Our children have been incredibly patient in the time they have to spend with us at our current premises. Diving for most people is a hobby and so lots happens in evenings and weekends. We hope that the new dive centre with us living over will allow us to balance family and work a little better. I hope that we will be an asset to Port St Mary.

 

Finally, may I express my very best wishes to John Corrin and hope that he does manage to resume trading within the village.

 

As an ex-diver, and as somebody who doesn't want to see the island's towns die, I wish you well.

 

S

[Diverchelle]

As an ex-diver, and as somebody who doesn't want to see the island's towns die, I wish you well.

 

S

 

Thank you for that. Maybe we'll tempt you back into the water?