Gagster Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The Queen is Head of State of 16 countries (UK + 15 Commonwealth Countries) If she were the head of state of IoM, this would be 17 countries, IoM would be a member of the Commonwealth, and Queen in Council would have no power to impose legislation without Tynwald. I was described as being WRONG too, but the fact is this: she is the The Queen and Head of State to 16 countries PLUS their DEPENDANCIES, as I stated in a previous posting. My entry into the conversation was to correct someone that said she is "Lord Of Mann but NOT The Queen". She is both. It was suggested that the term "Queen" is just out of respect rather than being official, and that it is the "The Lord Of Mann" that is her official position. I then pointed out it is more the other way around, and highlighted Tynwald as part of this. When they swear in new members, they do so in the name of the Queen, NOT Lord Of Mann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but she is not the Queen of the Isle of Man, nor is she the 'Lord of Mann'. She is de facto ruler of the Isle of Man, which is a dependency of the UK. Had the Crown acquired legal title to the sovereignty, royalties and regalities of IoM as you suggest, she would be Queen of the Isle of Man (since IoM was 'an absolute kindom'). She is however Queen of the UK and the sovereignty of IoM is in her hands. So, if you want to say she is Queen over IoM in that sense, ok. However she is not Queen of the Isle of Man. Yes, MHK's swear allegience to the Queen of England. (Just as public officials are servants of the Queen). Had Saddam set up a Parliament in Kuwait, they might have sworn allegience to the President of Iraq - it wouldn't mean he woudl have been head of state of Kuwait, or President of Kuwait - only the President ruling over Kuwait. In 1765, Charlotte Murray, 8th Baroness Strange sold the suzerainty of the island to the British government for £70,000. By the passage of the Isle of Man Purchase Act 1765 the title of Lord of Mann was revested into the British Crown. It has therefore since been used on the Isle of Man to refer to the reigning Monarch of the United Kingdom, thus today the title 'Lord of Mann' is used by Queen Elizabeth II. The The Isle of Man is not part of the UK, has no King or Queen (Elizabeth II is "Lord of Mann"). The head of state of the Isle of Man is Her Majesty the Queen, not, however, in ther capacity as the Queen of England but as the Lord of Mann, Most of this is historical fiction. Where on earth does this come from? Some bad 19th century school history book? the suzerainty was not sold (that was held by the English Crown anyway). Neither was the sovereignty sold. (there is absolutely no judicial record of this as would be required if this were the case - not even a treaty) The Isle of Man Purchase Act did not 'revest the title of Lord of Mann into the British Crown'. How could it - IoM was entirely out of the jurisdiction fo Parliament, so this could achieve no such thing. Queen Elizaabeth II does not use the title 'Lord of Mann' (if anyone has evidence she does I'd love to see it). The Isle of Man has no head of state. It is not currenlty a sovereign state. (though it was prior to 1765). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Oh Noes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Oh Noes! Oh dears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but she is not the Queen of the Isle of Man, nor is she the 'Lord of Mann'. She is de facto ruler of the Isle of Man, which is a dependency of the UK. Had the Crown acquired legal title to the sovereignty, royalties and regalities of IoM as you suggest, she would be Queen of the Isle of Man (since IoM was 'an absolute kindom'). She is however Queen of the UK and the sovereignty of IoM is in her hands. So, if you want to say she is Queen over IoM in that sense, ok. However she is not Queen of the Isle of Man. Yes, MHK's swear allegience to the Queen of England. (Just as public officials are servants of the Queen). Had Saddam set up a Parliament in Kuwait, they might have sworn allegience to the President of Iraq - it wouldn't mean he woudl have been head of state of Kuwait, or President of Kuwait - only the President ruling over Kuwait. In 1765, Charlotte Murray, 8th Baroness Strange sold the suzerainty of the island to the British government for £70,000. By the passage of the Isle of Man Purchase Act 1765 the title of Lord of Mann was revested into the British Crown. It has therefore since been used on the Isle of Man to refer to the reigning Monarch of the United Kingdom, thus today the title 'Lord of Mann' is used by Queen Elizabeth II. The The Isle of Man is not part of the UK, has no King or Queen (Elizabeth II is "Lord of Mann"). The head of state of the Isle of Man is Her Majesty the Queen, not, however, in ther capacity as the Queen of England but as the Lord of Mann, Most of this is historical fiction. Where on earth does this come from? Some bad 19th century school history book? the suzerainty was not sold (that was held by the English Crown anyway). Neither was the sovereignty sold. (there is absolutely no judicial record of this as would be required if this were the case - not even a treaty) The Isle of Man Purchase Act did not 'revest the title of Lord of Mann into the British Crown'. How could it - IoM was entirely out of the jurisdiction fo Parliament, so this could achieve no such thing. Queen Elizaabeth II does not use the title 'Lord of Mann' (if anyone has evidence she does I'd love to see it). The Isle of Man has no head of state. It is not currenlty a sovereign state. (though it was prior to 1765). The IOM is not a sovereign state, but every state, sovereign or not, has an ultimate authority, and therefore (in nearly all cases) a head of state. The reigning British monarch is the head of state of the Isle of Man, amd this is evidenced by the oath of allegiance. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Not according to the Manx government. From the website: Q How do I become a Manx citizen? A You can’t. Manx people are actually British citizens deriving their nationality from the provisions of the British Nationality Acts. Q How do I get a Manx passport? A You can’t. There is actually no such thing as a "Manx" passport. The Isle of Man Passport Office issues British passports to British citizens and British subjects resident in the Isle of Man, or, to British citizens born in the Isle of Man but resident in the United Kingdom. S I didn't say there was a manx passport. Just that you have a stamp on your regular passport. This is true, as i checked it out and one of my friends has it, as do the rest of her family. Maybe it doesn't apply now, but it did when she was issued her last passport afew years back. If you can't be classed as a Manx citizen then why are we referred to as Manx? Surely if there was no such thing we would be termed something else? Edit: sorry ponderer. Back on to topic we shall go! In practical terms, about the only benefit of being Manx is that you are automatically a "Manx Worker", and don't need a work permit. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The IOM is not a sovereign state, but every state, sovereign or not, has an ultimate authority, and therefore (in nearly all cases) a head of state. The reigning British monarch is the head of state of the Isle of Man, amd this is evidenced by the oath of allegiance. Sebrof you're right in that not being sovereign state isn't proof enough. Suppose Saddam had set up a government in Kuwait when this was under Iraqi occupation, and they'd sworn allegiance to the President of Iraq, would that have made him head of state of Kuwait? The real question though is would any other state recognise him as such? (other than de facto recognition). Plain answer is no - at least they shouldn't. Is there a single state that recognises the Queen as head of state of the Isle of Man? If not, why not? Could such recognition be given under principles of international law? If not, then in what sense is the Queen Head of State? (Becuase the IOMG website says so??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 So if she isn't who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I've talked to this American guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 whatever happened to King Dave ? I have him locked in me garden shed until such time as he sees sense and marries me! He's lost quite a bit of weight though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I'm confused with the direction of this thread. Are people saying Cav is a queen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Oh, do keep up Albert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 So if she isn't who is? The Isle of Man has no head of state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I'm cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Long live the republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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