Newsbot Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 A member of the House of Keys is urging the Isle of Man to find look at ways of becoming energy self-sufficient. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7596872.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 A member of the House of Keys is urging the Isle of Man to find look at ways of becoming energy self-sufficient. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7596872.stm Renewable energy? Just remind me, who runs a company of a similar name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 'Listen Again' to the actual interview I did with Phil Gawne on Tuesday's Mandate - I put exactly that point to him towards the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 'Listen Again' to the actual interview I did with Phil Gawne on Tuesday's Mandate - I put exactly that point to him towards the end... Can't find it on either show, giz a clue stu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_scrote Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 seems it's on the Wednesday Mandate AM... as I listen to it now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Ah ta. Stuart, wind turbines with 50 years payback? Where'd you get that from? At current prices, a modern 3mw wind turbine will pay back in under six months, obviously dependant on the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 At current prices, a modern 3mw wind turbine will pay back in under six months, obviously dependant on the wind. Presume a 3MW turbine (small m = 1/1000th ! not 1,000,000) - it might pay back if the infrastructure can take it - it needs power feed from the turbine (quite costly if in a remote spot) + also the network it is feeding has to be able to handle the fluctating generation in that as the wind drops additional power needs be obtained from elsewhere, large power stations are not economic when run in this manner thus the 'free' turbine energy is offset both by capital costs of equipment needed for when no wind is present and also the need for short term flutating power as the Island has no obvious energy storage system other than possibly dumping onto the cable to the UK who may offer to buy it at a very low price knowing the Island has nowhereelse to dump it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 At current prices, a modern 3mw wind turbine will pay back in under six months, obviously dependant on the wind. Presume a 3MW turbine (small m = 1/1000th ! not 1,000,000) - it might pay back if the infrastructure can take it - it needs power feed from the turbine (quite costly if in a remote spot) + also the network it is feeding has to be able to handle the fluctating generation in that as the wind drops additional power needs be obtained from elsewhere, large power stations are not economic when run in this manner thus the 'free' turbine energy is offset both by capital costs of equipment needed for when no wind is present and also the need for short term flutating power as the Island has no obvious energy storage system other than possibly dumping onto the cable to the UK who may offer to buy it at a very low price knowing the Island has nowhereelse to dump it Better by far to dam the Sulby Glen a little bit below the present reservoir at an altitude of 240m. A second dam at the bottom of the glen at say 160m would act as a reservoir. A massive bank of windpumps would pump water from the lower to the higher reservoir, allowing a large scale hydro scheme to supply power for the whole island. Hydro power allows supply to be easily matched to demand without the necessity for expensive power-balancing equipment (the second major objection to wind-power), and power output continues even when there is no wind (unlike wind-generated electricity). The land around the existing reservoir is of very low economic value, and although the views would be radically changed (the existing reservoir will be much bigger), not everybody would say it would be for the worse. The new expanses of water would provide wonderful water-sports opportunities, and new habititats would be created for wild-life. Indeed, there could be a considerable tourism benefit. This is all well-proved and relatively inexpensive technology. The dams would cost a bit, but compared to the island's future oil and gas bills, the project would be a bargain. Once installed, the marginal cost per unit of power will be close to zero, so it would make sense to run everything on electricity. All those gas-guzzlers could be converted to electrical power, and would be worth something again, as well as being eco-friendly. It'll happen eventually; but you read it here first. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 The land around the existing reservoir is of very low economic value, and although the views would be radically changed (the existing reservoir will be much bigger), not everybody would say it would be for the worse. The new expanses of water would provide wonderful water-sports opportunities, and new habititats would be created for wild-life. Indeed, there could be a considerable tourism benefit. This is all well-proved and relatively inexpensive technology. The dams would cost a bit, but compared to the island's future oil and gas bills, the project would be a bargain. Once installed, the marginal cost per unit of power will be close to zero, so it would make sense to run everything on electricity. All those gas-guzzlers could be converted to electrical power, and would be worth something again, as well as being eco-friendly. It'll happen eventually; but you read it here first. S It's a nice idea, but why go to all that expense to store fresh water in an island surrounded by sea water, tides, and a very windy coast? If you wanted to do a combination of hydro tidal and wind, a valley like Port Soderick would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 It's a nice idea, but why go to all that expense to store fresh water in an island surrounded by sea water, tides, and a very windy coast? If you wanted to do a combination of hydro tidal and wind, a valley like Port Soderick would be perfect. We already have a useless fucking eyesore at one end of our valley, and a second one stinking up the road running through us. Time to find another scapegoat for your white elephants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 The land around the existing reservoir is of very low economic value, and although the views would be radically changed (the existing reservoir will be much bigger), not everybody would say it would be for the worse. The new expanses of water would provide wonderful water-sports opportunities, and new habititats would be created for wild-life. Indeed, there could be a considerable tourism benefit. This is all well-proved and relatively inexpensive technology. The dams would cost a bit, but compared to the island's future oil and gas bills, the project would be a bargain. Once installed, the marginal cost per unit of power will be close to zero, so it would make sense to run everything on electricity. All those gas-guzzlers could be converted to electrical power, and would be worth something again, as well as being eco-friendly. It'll happen eventually; but you read it here first. S It's a nice idea, but why go to all that expense to store fresh water in an island surrounded by sea water, tides, and a very windy coast? If you wanted to do a combination of hydro tidal and wind, a valley like Port Soderick would be perfect. Why? It's obvious. 1 Because wind and wave power are dependent on (you guessed it) wind and waves. Even on the IOM, these are by no means reliable. 2 Because nowhere else, with the possible exception of the Calf, offers anything like enough power-generating potential. And wave/tidal power has the same problem of inconstancy that renders wind-power impracticable. If it weren't for the massive subsidies, you wouldn't see a wind-power windmill anywhere. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Sorry for getting my days mixed up, but you got there in the end. 50 years was just a wild guess at a payback period. Bet it's longer than six months though - Jebus, if it were that quick we'd be MAD not to have wind farms all over the place - MAD I say! Forbes - the reservoir idea, i/c with wind powered pumps, seems a fine idea too. And we're hardly short of rain to fill the thing these days either. I think I'm becoming a renewable convert - if only so the oil we save in power plants can go in my cars and bike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 It's a nice idea, but why go to all that expense to store fresh water in an island surrounded by sea water, tides, and a very windy coast? If you wanted to do a combination of hydro tidal and wind, a valley like Port Soderick would be perfect. We already have a useless fucking eyesore at one end of our valley, and a second one stinking up the road running through us. Time to find another scapegoat for your white elephants. Thank you for your carefully reasoned and eloquently expressed post. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 All this talk of needing 'renewable energy' to secure the Islands future sounds a bit like all the 'lights will be going out' quotes about the MEA 10 years ago. If only there was a renewable energy company we could turn to to deliver wave power for the IOM. Oh wait, there is, I wonder if the government will be throwing another hundred million or so at delivering it. Deja vu anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 is there enough room at Sulby ? - take the smallest Welsh pumped scheme Ffestiniog - 360 MW ouput (energy storage maybe 1500MWhr) - has 2M cu m of stoarege falling through 200m - any Sulby scheme would all through at most 50m thus 90MW assuming same storage - say we want 50MW (about 50% of Island) for 5hr then we need about 1 M cu m (using the welsh scheme as model) - say 10m allowed variation in water level thus need 100,000 sq m of surface area (1km by 100m) - obviously you can play with figures but I suspect not really enough room but might work well if a tidal flow scheme was used as then the pumped storage need only run for say 2 hours of each tide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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