Cret Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Or explain what the word 'illegal' means maybe. Perhaps they should make an exception for her because the dog is usually friendly. Then for someone else too. Then for all of them. Sod it, scrap that law because people think it's mean, then sit back and wait for the tears when there's a resulting death/maiming further down the line. Perhaps they'd be happy then. *edit* I can't believe what I just read from 'staffy owner' on that link, saying that "No breed of dog is dangerous in the right hands". What utter claptrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Or explain what the word 'illegal' means maybe. Perhaps they should make an exception for her because the dog is usually friendly. Then for someone else too. Then for all of them. Sod it, scrap that law because people think it's mean, then sit back and wait for the tears when there's a resulting death/maiming further down the line. Perhaps they'd be happy then. *edit* I can't believe what I just read from 'staffy owner' on that link, saying that "No breed of dog is dangerous in the right hands". What utter claptrap. I am Staffy Owner who posted on IOM Today. Maybe to put things in context you should print the rest of my quote which read that every dog is dangerous in the wrong hands. If you you think this is claptrap then there is no hope for you! In the right hands, a dog which has potential to damage another dog will be kept under control (lead or harness) by it's owner at all times, muzzled in public if required and will never be left alone with children (this applies to all dogs irrespective of breed). In what way is this claptrap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 There's more I will be leaving the Island for good if they put my dog to sleep. SARA From here http://www.iomtoday.co.im/your-shout/Rehom...rier.4480782.jp Getting to the bottom of the barrell throwing in the race card. I think some one needs to explain to her very very slowly why her dog has been taken off her, maybe even show her photographs of the injuries caused by loving,loyal, softy family pets to their family members. Maybe it might sink in that a pit bull does not make a good pet. Just read that thread - not just racist but 'anti-dog' too. Next thing is anyone supporting the authorities will be tarred with the 'pro-cat' brush... It flabbergasts me that with so much pubicity and use of off-Island petitions none of these supporters has been in touch with her to re-home what she has now confimed is an APBT. Mind you is it an APBT because Staffy says: "to me it looks nothing like a Pitbull or American Pitbull" So the supporters who are rallying around every media channel are now questioning whether the owner knows what she is talking about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I am not questioning whether the owner knows what she is talking about. It is very difficult to identify a Pitbull type dog, in effect you are trying to identify a mongrel! Because of this, there are cases in Liverpool of dogs which are nothing like Pitbulls being seized by police who lets face have a hard enough time identifying criminals let alone breeds of dogs. This is exactly why breed specific legislation does not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 In the right hands, a dog which has potential to damage another dog will be kept under control (lead or harness) by it's owner at all times, muzzled in public if required and will never be left alone with children (this applies to all dogs irrespective of breed). In what way is this claptrap? Because it is hopelessly optimistic and flies in the face of reality. Realistically these dogs are not kept in this environment and you cannot guarantee that one that is will always be so kept. The result is a well documented record of maulings. The Youtube videos of champ have children talking in the background as he is mauling a rope swing. If that child had run or moved suddenly at the wrong moment there could have been very serious consequences and if you are going to say this didn't happen in this instance - well fine, but are you going to say it will always be so. Claptrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 In the right hands, a dog which has potential to damage another dog will be kept under control (lead or harness) by it's owner at all times, muzzled in public if required and will never be left alone with children (this applies to all dogs irrespective of breed). In what way is this claptrap? Because it is hopelessly optimistic and flies in the face of reality. Realistically these dogs are not kept in this environment and you cannot guarantee that one that is will always be so kept. The result is a well documented record of maulings. The Youtube videos of champ have children talking in the background as he is mauling a rope swing. If that child had run or moved suddenly at the wrong moment there could have been very serious consequences and if you are going to say this didn't happen in this instance - well fine, but are you going to say it will always be so. Claptrap. The dog is "mauling" the rope swing in the video, it's mearly doing what every dog, regardless of breed would do, that is playing!!! It is not optimistic to expect people to control their dogs, it is a basic requirement which should be a pre-requisite to dog ownership. I don't think these dogs are for everyone, in fact I would introduce a licensing system for powerful breeds. I have recently bred a litter of staffies and I took the decision early on not to advertise or sell them but instead have given them away to people I trust. I am the first to admit that there are a lot of idiots out there with dogs which aren't suitable for them and perhaps we should target these people and not dogs by breed type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Or explain what the word 'illegal' means maybe. Perhaps they should make an exception for her because the dog is usually friendly. Then for someone else too. Then for all of them. Sod it, scrap that law because people think it's mean, then sit back and wait for the tears when there's a resulting death/maiming further down the line. Perhaps they'd be happy then. *edit* I can't believe what I just read from 'staffy owner' on that link, saying that "No breed of dog is dangerous in the right hands". What utter claptrap. I am Staffy Owner who posted on IOM Today. Maybe to put things in context you should print the rest of my quote which read that every dog is dangerous in the wrong hands. If you you think this is claptrap then there is no hope for you! In the right hands, a dog which has potential to damage another dog will be kept under control (lead or harness) by it's owner at all times, muzzled in public if required and will never be left alone with children (this applies to all dogs irrespective of breed). In what way is this claptrap? I believe it's claptrap because with the best will in the world (and credit where it's due, you actually sound like you have the right sort of intentions in looking after a dog) you can't predict how it will behave even if it's the most mollycoddled pooch around. I agree that a mistreated dog is far more likely to snap and cause an 'incident' than one that's been looked after, that's fairly obvious. But as has been pointed out a few times, all animals are capable of 'flipping out' for no good reason on the odd occasion. Plenty of people do it, and plenty of dogs do it. It's fine that in public it's muzzled & so on too. You can take all sorts of precautions for safety, but it seems these sort of horrific and tragic attacks often occur at home when the dog is free to do as it pleases, so how can that be prevented? It can't realistically. So I maintain that you're wrong to suggest that no dogs are dangerous in the right hands. I should apologise as perhaps saying claptrap was a bit rude. I'll downgrade it simply to incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Well if we agree that responsible owners can handle powerful dogs but that the risk can never be reduced to nil then what we are talking about is degrees of manageable risk. A child that lives with a powerful dog, and responsible owners, will face less risk than he or she will every day of it's life when it crosses a road. A child that lives with it's chav parents and staffy called Tyson is obviously more at risk hence my argument of targetting owners. Do we really as a society want to make certain breeds of dogs extinct because people can't take the time or gain the knowledge to control their dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 The dog is "mauling" the rope swing in the video, it's mearly doing what every dog, regardless of breed would do, that is playing!!! Oh please - this is a fifty pound adult dog which has been bred to be agressive, getting exited biting something. The fact that this behaviour can very very quickly become something far far worse than "playing" is exactly why these dogs are dangerous and why children are a far greater proportion of the victims of their bites. You catagorically do not what a child around a pitbull when it is "play" fighting. If you are going to disagree over this you are either a troll or a person who has no respect for powerful agressive dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 The dog is "mauling" the rope swing in the video, it's mearly doing what every dog, regardless of breed would do, that is playing!!! Oh please - this is a fifty pound adult dog which has been bred to be agressive, getting exited biting something. The fact that this behaviour can very very quickly become something far far worse than "playing" is exactly why these dogs are dangerous and why children are a far greater proportion of the victims of their bites. You catagorically do not what a child around a pitbull when it is "play" fighting. If you are going to disagree over this you are either a troll or a person who has no respect for powerful agressive dogs. You are, I'm afraid, an idiot! All dogs will play tug games. That is exactly what champ is doing in these clips. However at what point did you equate my statement on playing to me suggesting that children should be involved in these "games". Only an idiot would let a child play with a powerful dog as these dogs do play rough and do get over excited. Read my other posts, these dogs should only be kept by appropriate owners who know how to handle them responsibly. Also do you have no respect for the damage a small aggresive dog can do (you seem intent on equating powerful with aggressive for some reason)? I once had a nasty bite from a Jack Russell, fair enough, it wasn't going to kill me but it still hurts a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Read my other posts, these dogs should only be kept by appropriate owners who know how to handle them responsibly. Can you define what an appropriate owner, for a dog that has been bred specifically for fighting, should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Read my other posts, these dogs should only be kept by appropriate owners who know how to handle them responsibly. Can you define an appropriate owner for a dog that has been bred specifically for fighting? I think you will find that there are a lot of dogs out there that were historically bred for fighting or hunting but don't get the publicity that Pitbulls do. We as a race have modified there behaviour over the years to make them more acceptable as pets however the underlying instincts are still there. That is why they need controlled Let's take Staffy's as an example since that is the breed I own. These have been softened over the years and are no longer recognisable as fighting dogs. They are also only one of, I believe, two breeds of dog which are mentioned as being good with children in their breed standard. Did the kennel club include this for a joke or do you think this is a reputation which has been deserved over years for exemplary behaviour around children. Did you know boxers were originally bred for fighting. Your not seriously going to tell me they pose a threat and should be banned are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 *edit* I can't believe what I just read from 'staffy owner' on that link, saying that "No breed of dog is dangerous in the right hands". I thought the Report loaf posted made an excellent point: Pitbull Terriers present an extreme 'actuarial risk'. They are too dangerous to allow anyone to own one, and hence are subject to import controls etc. The same is true of lions and tigers (which one might also claim are 'not dangerous in the right hands'). I've not seen the 1980 Act, but I imagine one could apply for a special license for a Pitbull Terrier (or a puma, wolf, lion or other dangerous animal), but would have to satisfy the authorities that the animal will be in 'the right hands'. Even if one does accept the idea that "no breed of dog is dangerous in the right hands", she hardly comes across as a mature, sound, and responsible person with proper concern for public safety etc. The problem isn't Champ, it's the unacceptably high risk to the public if one treats Pitbull Terriers like any other dog rather than as dangerous animals subject to special controls. She just doesn't make the grade. I will be leaving the Island for good if they put my dog to sleep. Since it's a given that the dog will be destroyed if she doesn't take him off the Island, why not do this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Read my other posts, these dogs should only be kept by appropriate owners who know how to handle them responsibly. Can you define an appropriate owner for a dog that has been bred specifically for fighting? I think you will find that there are a lot of dogs out there that were historically bred for fighting or hunting but don't get the publicity that Pitbulls do. We as a race have modified there behaviour over the years to make them more acceptable as pets however the underlying instincts are still there. That is why they need controlled Let's take Staffy's as an example since that is the breed I own. These have been softened over the years and are no longer recognisable as fighting dogs. They are also only one of, I believe, two breeds of dog which are mentioned as being good with children in their breed standard. Did the kennel club include this for a joke or do you think this is a reputation which has been deserved over years for exemplary behaviour around children. Did you know boxers were originally bred for fighting. Your not seriously going to tell me they pose a threat and should be banned are you? You can't answer me then? You've also shot yourself in the foot too with this pointless argument about keeping an animal that is ILLEGAL to own. Tell me why this woman thinks she is above the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Terrier Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I don't know the person or her background so I cannot comment. If she was someone who wasn't suitable, and I say if, then the dog should be re-homed through the MSPCA, not destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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