[BBC News] Banned pitbull seized on island

[Stavros]

Is it dead yet?

 

Stav.

[Scottish Terrier]

How can someone make a complaint under The Dogs Act 1990 when the dog hasn't demonstrated aggression to humans?

The point I was making earlier is that last year the Government declared that our Dogs Act covered the situation of dangerous dogs adequately and no further legislation was required or proposed, in particular to breed.

 

That now appears not to be the case hence the use of the Wild Animals Act, which only covers importation and has obvious loopholes. What if Champ was a bitch and was bred in Ireland and brought back here to have her offspring. The puppies would not have been imported and would not be covered by either act.

 

As for the arguments that Pitbulls are not domestic dogs, we're now getting into fantasy. Given proper responsible ownership, which has been given to other former fighting dogs, I am sure they would make good domestic pets.

 

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

[Scottish Terrier]

Is it dead yet?

 

Stav.

 

Are you not dead yet?

[Shill]

in your opinion.

 

So what's yours then? What category of animal would you put a Pit Bull type dog into? Me? I'd say dangerous.....

 

The only thing I can find on this topic from you is "In my view if the dog turns out to be illegal on the Isle of Man it should be re-homed somewhere where it is legal. Whether the owner likes it or not. The dog should not be put down without evidence to suggest it is dangerous to small children. It's not the dogs fault it is allegedly a breed of dog that is illegal in the IOM. "

 

I agree that the dog should be rehomed somewhere it is legal. As to whether this particular dog is dangerous - irrelevent as it is illegal. just ship it back to Ireland where it alledgely came from in the first place.

 

(I state this it is illegal because the current owner, Sara, has stated in a number of different places that is is an APTB and they are illegal to import here so it should not be here as it was obviously imported originally).

 

 

What constitutes a wild animal ?

 

If this dog is a wild animal then surely that means it lives in the wild with no owner or carer. It fends for itself.

 

The previous poster gave 3 options and decided in 'his/her opinion' that it went in the third one.

 

I agree that if the animal turns out to be illegal in the IOM then it should be re-homed. I am of the camp that it shouldnt be killed. If it cant be rehomed then it needs to at least be in the care of the MSPCA until it can be rehomed. Therefore not potentially and thats the word here folks, potentially causing a threat to other animals or people.

[Skeddan]

How can someone make a complaint under The Dogs Act 1990 when the dog hasn't demonstrated aggression to humans?

...

Read The Dogs Act 1990, Section 19. Clicky

 

Anyone can make a complaint that any dog is dangerous. There is no requirement that the dog has to have 'demonstrated aggression to humans'. What the court then decide to do will obviously be at its discretion. One could argue this is perhaps not drafted particularly well, and the dog has to actually be dangerous, or given just cause for alarm or annoyance, etc. If so it will be up to the court to decide if that is the case.

 

For a dog to be dangerous does not mean it must have 'demonstrated aggression to humans'. Being a Pitbull Terrier, or Pitbull Type or cross, a dog which cannot be trusted with humans 20% of the time, and which is 'not good with other dogs', is probably more than enough to put Champ in the category of dangerous dog in most people's minds - and very reasonably so IMO.

 

Section 19 of the Act:

 

(1) Any person may make a complaint to a court of summary jurisdiction that a dog —

(a) is not kept under proper control; or

(b) causes a nuisance or annoyance to the inhabitants of the neighbourhood in which it is kept; or

(c ) is dangerous; or

(d) has caused injury, or has given just cause for alarm or annoyance, to any person in a highway or other place to which the public has access; or

(e) has worried livestock.

 

(2) On a complaint under subsection (1) the court may make an order directing that the dog —

(a) in any case, be kept under proper control;

(b) in a case falling within subsection (1)(b), be removed from the neighbourhood within a time specified in the order; or

(c ) in a case falling within subsection (1)(c ), (d) or (e), be destroyed within a time so specified.

[WTF]

How can someone make a complaint under The Dogs Act 1990 when the dog hasn't demonstrated aggression to humans?

The point I was making earlier is that last year the Government declared that our Dogs Act covered the situation of dangerous dogs adequately and no further legislation was required or proposed, in particular to breed.

 

That now appears not to be the case hence the use of the Wild Animals Act, which only covers importation and has obvious loopholes. What if Champ was a bitch and was bred in Ireland and brought back here to have her offspring. The puppies would not have been imported and would not be covered by either act.

 

As for the arguments that Pitbulls are not domestic dogs, we're now getting into fantasy. Given proper responsible ownership, which has been given to other former fighting dogs, I am sure they would make good domestic pets.

 

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

 

 

another straw?? your first paragraph is correct, no further legislation is needed , if a dog was here legally and did something bad, the act would cover it. as this dog should not be here cos it can't be legally, why would the dogs act need legislation changing to cover it?? it is nothing to do with dangerous acts on behalf of the dog that is the issue here, it is its ILLEGAL presence that is the issue ( let me know when you need reminding AGAIN )

 

second paragraph, as pitbulls can't legally be imported, a pregnant bitch can't be brought over to spawn anyway so it's a mute point. what is and is not legal elsewhere in the world is irrelevent, it is the manx law that matters in this case.

 

your no long lists of dead babies is maybe valid on a behaviour point, but not a location one. but would a load of gyppo's report their own dogs biting their own kids to the police anyway to show up on statistics.??

[Chinahand]

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

Try googling Pitbull attack Dublin, or Pitbull attack Garda and you will see you optimism is as usual misplaced. Also Pitbulls are banned by Dublin Council from all its properties.

[Scottish Terrier]

How can someone make a complaint under The Dogs Act 1990 when the dog hasn't demonstrated aggression to humans?

The point I was making earlier is that last year the Government declared that our Dogs Act covered the situation of dangerous dogs adequately and no further legislation was required or proposed, in particular to breed.

 

That now appears not to be the case hence the use of the Wild Animals Act, which only covers importation and has obvious loopholes. What if Champ was a bitch and was bred in Ireland and brought back here to have her offspring. The puppies would not have been imported and would not be covered by either act.

 

As for the arguments that Pitbulls are not domestic dogs, we're now getting into fantasy. Given proper responsible ownership, which has been given to other former fighting dogs, I am sure they would make good domestic pets.

 

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

 

 

another straw?? your first paragraph is correct, no further legislation is needed , if a dog was here legally and did something bad, the act would cover it. as this dog should not be here cos it can't be legally, why would the dogs act need legislation changing to cover it?? it is nothing to do with dangerous acts on behalf of the dog that is the issue here, it is its ILLEGAL presence that is the issue ( let me know when you need reminding AGAIN )

 

second paragraph, as pitbulls can't legally be imported, a pregnant bitch can't be brought over to spawn anyway so it's a mute point. what is and is not legal elsewhere in the world is irrelevent, it is the manx law that matters in this case.

 

your no long lists of dead babies is maybe valid on a behaviour point, but not a location one. but would a load of gyppo's report their own dogs biting their own kids to the police anyway to show up on statistics.??

 

As the dog's type is still up for debate, it is a bit narrow minded to say it is here illegally. Isn't this subject to appeal?

 

Secondly, you say a Pitbull can't legally be imported so it is a "mute" (try moot) point. I am quite sure there have been Pitbulls born on this island in the recent past despite what the law says on importation of parents. To deny this would be extremely naive.

 

Lastly, dismissing the whole of Ireland as "Gypos" probably won't win you many friends.

[Scottish Terrier]

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

Try googling Pitbull attack Dublin, or Pitbull attack Garda and you will see you optimism is as usual misplaced. Also Pitbulls are banned by Dublin Council from all its properties.

 

I did and I got 14,900 results. I then typed Duck attack Dublin and got 666,000. What's your point exactly?

[Lonan3]

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

Try googling Pitbull attack Dublin, or Pitbull attack Garda and you will see you optimism is as usual misplaced. Also Pitbulls are banned by Dublin Council from all its properties.

 

I did and I got 14,900 results. I then typed Duck attack Dublin and got 666,000. What's your point exactly?

Possibly the fact that 'Pitbull attack Dublin' results in a considerable number of links to reports of pitbulls attacking people.

'Duck attack Dublin' doesn't.

Sorry... didn't mean to confuse you.

[homeoneday]

Dis anyone go on the 'support Champ protest walk'??

[Scottish Terrier]

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

Try googling Pitbull attack Dublin, or Pitbull attack Garda and you will see you optimism is as usual misplaced. Also Pitbulls are banned by Dublin Council from all its properties.

 

I did and I got 14,900 results. I then typed Duck attack Dublin and got 666,000. What's your point exactly?

Possibly the fact that 'Pitbull attack Dublin' results in a considerable number of links to reports of pitbulls attacking people.

'Duck attack Dublin' doesn't.

Sorry... didn't mean to confuse you.

 

You didn't confuse me, it wasn't your post. Are you confused or something?

[P.K.]

You didn't confuse me, it wasn't your post. Are you confused or something?

"Care in the Community" clearly isn't working...

[Chinahand]

FFS Scottish Terrier How many hands have you got - you must have one pair to put your fingers in your ears as you desperately hum - I can't hear you. And another pair over your eyes - I can't see anything wrong.

 

A report on a postman being bitten from yesterday

 

An attack on a child

 

Attack on a teenage girl

 

Are you really saying there aren't problems with Pitbulls in Ireland? You really are amazing.

[fishkettle]

Oh no, Scottish Terrier is back growling on about Champ (pun intended, natch).

 

I have a solution to this canine conundrum.... We need to get the pre-cogs over here and afloat in a tepid pool of milky water and wait for their murderous verdict on Champ.... I can just see the little red ball coming down now....

 

FYI minority-report