[BBC News] Banned pitbull seized on island

[Static]

As the dog's type is still up for debate, it is a bit narrow minded to say it is here illegally. Isn't this subject to appeal?

 

Secondly, you say a Pitbull can't legally be imported so it is a "mute" (try moot) point. I am quite sure there have been Pitbulls born on this island in the recent past despite what the law says on importation of parents. To deny this would be extremely naive.

 

Lastly, dismissing the whole of Ireland as "Gypos" probably won't win you many friends.

 

The dog's type is NOT up for debate. The current "owner", Sara, states it is an American Pitbull. http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25893149946

"The IOM Government are going to try and put my dog Champ down because hes an American Pitbull" - How plain is that?

 

If there were Pit Bulls born on the island in the recent past then they would need dog licences If the owners stuck to the law. IF their owners had registered them as Pit Bulls then I'm sure we would know about it by now. I'd bet that every dog licence form has now been reviewed for breed. But then if the owners knew that their dog was illegal to import then they might have lied on the licence form. So there might have been Pit Bulls born on the island but apart from Champ they obviously haven't been discovered by the authorities up to now.

 

But we know from what we have read here that "Dean" imported the dog when it was 3 months old so no matter what you say the dog was brought here illegally so should be sent back whence it came.

 

I actually agree with your last point!

[Scottish Terrier]

FFS Scottish Terrier How many hands have you got - you must have one pair to put your fingers in your ears as you desperately hum - I can't hear you. And another pair over your eyes - I can't see anything wrong.

 

A report on a postman being bitten from yesterday

 

An attack on a child

 

Attack on a teenage girl

 

Are you really saying there aren't problems with Pitbulls in Ireland? You really are amazing.

 

FFS Chinahand.....Don't you see the first story backs up everything I have said. The owner of the dog was also attacking the Postman! This isn't a dog attack, this is an attack by a human who happens to be using a dog.

 

I would be the first person to say he shouldn't have a dog, or his liberty for that matter.

 

As for the second story, give me a break, A trained killer dog has a hold of the girl for 10 minutes but she can still pose for photos? Shouldn't she be dead if we believe the hype about Pitbulls.

 

Didn't read the last story, lost interest.

[bluemonday]

[Scottish Terrier]

As the dog's type is still up for debate, it is a bit narrow minded to say it is here illegally. Isn't this subject to appeal?

 

Secondly, you say a Pitbull can't legally be imported so it is a "mute" (try moot) point. I am quite sure there have been Pitbulls born on this island in the recent past despite what the law says on importation of parents. To deny this would be extremely naive.

 

Lastly, dismissing the whole of Ireland as "Gypos" probably won't win you many friends.

 

The dog's type is NOT up for debate. The current "owner", Sara, states it is an American Pitbull. http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25893149946

"The IOM Government are going to try and put my dog Champ down because hes an American Pitbull" - How plain is that?

 

If there were Pit Bulls born on the island in the recent past then they would need dog licences If the owners stuck to the law. IF their owners had registered them as Pit Bulls then I'm sure we would know about it by now. I'd bet that every dog licence form has now been reviewed for breed. But then if the owners knew that their dog was illegal to import then they might have lied on the licence form. So there might have been Pit Bulls born on the island but apart from Champ they obviously haven't been discovered by the authorities up to now.

 

But we know from what we have read here that "Dean" imported the dog when it was 3 months old so no matter what you say the dog was brought here illegally so should be sent back whence it came.

 

I actually agree with your last point!

 

But bearing in mind that Pitbull isn't actuallya recognised breed, I would imagine that people licence their dog as cross breed.

As for Sara's comments, I don't think she honestly knows what the dogs background is. I am not saying Champ was born here, I was mearly highlighting another loophole in the law.

[mannin]

FFS Chinahand.....Don't you see the first story backs up everything I have said. The owner of the dog was also attacking the Postman! This isn't a dog attack, this is an attack by a human who happens to be using a dog.

 

I would be the first person to say he shouldn't have a dog, or his liberty for that matter.

 

As for the second story, give me a break, A trained killer dog has a hold of the girl for 10 minutes but she can still pose for photos? Shouldn't she be dead if we believe the hype about Pitbulls.

 

Didn't read the last story, lost interest.

 

ST I suggest you re-read the first story in order to bring the chronology of events in line with the item

" The postman was on his rounds on September 8 when he was set upon by the pit bull.

 

He was then attacked by the dog's owner as he tried to fend off the snarling animal. A second man was also involved in the assault. "

 

Dog first then owner.

 

You might also want to take the time to read the other, should you not have the time to read that I will post here:

 

"THESE are the scars inflicted on this young Dublin girl savaged by a pit bull terrier.

 

The teenager was today undergoing surgery after the appalling attack overnight.

 

Louise Kelly (13) was mauled by the powerful animal just metres from her home at around 9pm.

 

Today she was being operated on for her dreadful injuries at Temple Street Children's Hospital.

 

Louise had been talking to her friends on the street near an open green space when the dog, being held by a young teen barely her own age, ran for her and locked his jaws on her calf muscle.

 

"The dog tore the trousers off her and wouldn't ... "

[WTF]

How can someone make a complaint under The Dogs Act 1990 when the dog hasn't demonstrated aggression to humans?

The point I was making earlier is that last year the Government declared that our Dogs Act covered the situation of dangerous dogs adequately and no further legislation was required or proposed, in particular to breed.

 

That now appears not to be the case hence the use of the Wild Animals Act, which only covers importation and has obvious loopholes. What if Champ was a bitch and was bred in Ireland and brought back here to have her offspring. The puppies would not have been imported and would not be covered by either act.

 

As for the arguments that Pitbulls are not domestic dogs, we're now getting into fantasy. Given proper responsible ownership, which has been given to other former fighting dogs, I am sure they would make good domestic pets.

 

If they are legal in Ireland, why do we not hear of hundreds of cases of baby killing coming from there every year. The answer is probably because there isn't actually a problem over there.

 

 

another straw?? your first paragraph is correct, no further legislation is needed , if a dog was here legally and did something bad, the act would cover it. as this dog should not be here cos it can't be legally, why would the dogs act need legislation changing to cover it?? it is nothing to do with dangerous acts on behalf of the dog that is the issue here, it is its ILLEGAL presence that is the issue ( let me know when you need reminding AGAIN )

 

second paragraph, as pitbulls can't legally be imported, a pregnant bitch can't be brought over to spawn anyway so it's a mute point. what is and is not legal elsewhere in the world is irrelevent, it is the manx law that matters in this case.

 

your no long lists of dead babies is maybe valid on a behaviour point, but not a location one. but would a load of gyppo's report their own dogs biting their own kids to the police anyway to show up on statistics.??

 

As the dog's type is still up for debate, it is a bit narrow minded to say it is here illegally. Isn't this subject to appeal?

 

 

 

the thing has been described by the real owner and sarah as a pit bull, as i posted elsewhere 5 seperate circumstances. NOW that a pitbull is discovered to be illegal here suddenly it isn't a pitbull really?? and all those spouting it was suddenly aren't sure what it is........ i bet its not even a dog soon if that helps the cause... here kitty kitty.

[Foxtrotlima]

blah blah blah This isn't a dog attack, this is an attack by a human who happens to be using a dog.blah blah blah

 

Please just take a moment to read back what you have written there. People are banned from using knives to attack humans, so we ban knives on the streets (ok, not very successfully admittedly). People are banned from using guns to attack humans, so we ban guns.

 

So it is OK to own a dog (of the pit bull type - bred for fighting) so that they can attack humans? I kind of think you have used an AK47 to shoot yourself in the foot there.

[fishkettle]

Perhaps Champ could be put to good use should the worst come to the worst... he looks quite meaty, I'm sure there's plenty of cats out there who'd love the kudos of having scoffed some Champ pate! I mean cats are fed rabbits, chicken, duck, fish... why not dog?!

[Scottish Terrier]

IMHO Sara and Deano (or whatever his name is) probably liked the idea of owning a Pitbull as it suited a certain image.

You could probably have sold them a donkey as a Pitbull and they wouldn't have known the difference.

 

Read my earlier posts about powerful dogs, their suitability to the owner and my suggestion of licensing owners. It is unlikely that under my regime they as people would be allowed to keep Champ, however there are people out there who could keep such a dog and keep it safely.

[Scottish Terrier]

blah blah blah This isn't a dog attack, this is an attack by a human who happens to be using a dog.blah blah blah

 

Please just take a moment to read back what you have written there. People are banned from using knives to attack humans, so we ban knives on the streets (ok, not very successfully admittedly). People are banned from using guns to attack humans, so we ban guns.

 

So it is OK to own a dog (of the pit bull type - bred for fighting) so that they can attack humans? I kind of think you have used an AK47 to shoot yourself in the foot there.

 

Are you just stupid or what?

People may use knives, dogs or whatever as weapons, we don't ban the other weapons as people have suggested we do to dogs.

We haven't banned guns or knives, you can legally own both with less effort than it takes to feed a dog.

 

Anyway, if we don't have Pitbulls, the scum will move on to Rottweillers. When we ban them, they'll move on to doberman/Alsation/Staffy/Bull Terrier, etc., Do you see the pattern. Doesn't matter what you ban or don't ban, the stronger dogs will always be abused in this way. Only way to tackle it is through regulating ownership by individual.

[Static]

IMHO Sara and Deano (or whatever his name is) probably liked the idea of owning a Pitbull TYPE as it suited a certain image.

You could probably have sold them a donkey as a Pitbull and they wouldn't have known the difference.

 

Read my earlier posts about powerful dogs, their suitability to the owner and my suggestion of licensing owners. It is unlikely that under my regime they as people would be allowed to keep Champ, however there are people out there who could keep such a dog and keep it safely.

 

There - fixed your post. As you stated earlier "But bearing in mind that Pitbull isn't actuallya recognised breed, I would imagine that people licence their dog as cross breed" so you must therefore only talk about Ptibull types.

 

You really are using semantics to try to defend a poor argument.

 

The current owner Sara, has stated that in her opinion Champ is a Pit Bull (type) dog. She has registered is her as that. We are also told that "Dean" was the previous owner and he IMPORTED it here when it was 3 months old.

 

So under the laws of the Isle of Man, as enforced by DAFF, not by DOLGE, this dog should not be here.

 

So please stop using semantics to defend the indefensible.

 

This dog should be shipped off to Ireland to save it's life and the "owner" should be made to pay the costs....and then given a free ticket to follow it to carry out her threat to leave if the dog goes.

[fishkettle]

I really hope this annoying Sara woman will leave when Champ is sent packing... Sadly I doubt it...

 

I mean is that meant to hold some sway with officials? "I'll go if he does! I'm not joking, I'll go!!!" "No Sara, so sorry, Champ can stay.. please don't leave!!!" Purleese.

[Chinahand]

It is unlikely that under my regime they as people would be allowed to keep Champ, however there are people out there who could keep such a dog and keep it safely.

Your regime! How are you going to stop them? How are you going to make everyone a responsible dog owner? And ensure a dog never turns viscious in an unexpected way?

 

Do you have any policy suggestions?

 

Or just a fairy land where all dogs are just lovely furry friends and everyone spends 100s of hrs training and training them.

 

The point has been made again and again that even the most responsible owner cannot guarantee these dogs will be safe. Or are you just going to say - I disagree and every one of the news reports and studies put up here are only from irresponsible careless owners?

 

Cloud cuckoo land.

[Static]

Anyway, if we don't have Pitbulls, the scum will move on to Rottweillers. When we ban them, they'll move on to doberman/Alsation/Staffy/Bull Terrier, etc., Do you see the pattern. Doesn't matter what you ban or don't ban, the stronger dogs will always be abused in this way. Only way to tackle it is through regulating ownership by individual.

 

So what you're saying is that we might as well roll over now and give into the scum? No way. I agree that most dogs can cause serious injury in the wrong hands but it has been shown time and time again on here that Pitbull (type) dogs, follwoed by Rottweilers are by far the worse breeds/types of dogs for killing and maiming people. Go back and read the statisitcs on this topic that you keep ignoring.

 

I do agree though that stopping the scum owning dogs is also a positive way to reduce problems. Can you guarantee though that a Pitbull type dog, in the right hands, might not one day snap and attack someone?

[Scottish Terrier]

IMHO Sara and Deano (or whatever his name is) probably liked the idea of owning a Pitbull TYPE as it suited a certain image.

You could probably have sold them a donkey as a Pitbull and they wouldn't have known the difference.

 

Read my earlier posts about powerful dogs, their suitability to the owner and my suggestion of licensing owners. It is unlikely that under my regime they as people would be allowed to keep Champ, however there are people out there who could keep such a dog and keep it safely.

 

There - fixed your post. As you stated earlier "But bearing in mind that Pitbull isn't actuallya recognised breed, I would imagine that people licence their dog as cross breed" so you must therefore only talk about Ptibull types.

 

You really are using semantics to try to defend a poor argument.

 

The current owner Sara, has stated that in her opinion Champ is a Pit Bull (type) dog. She has registered is her as that. We are also told that "Dean" was the previous owner and he IMPORTED it here when it was 3 months old.

 

So under the laws of the Isle of Man, as enforced by DAFF, not by DOLGE, this dog should not be here.

 

So please stop using semantics to defend the indefensible.

 

This dog should be shipped off to Ireland to save it's life and the "owner" should be made to pay the costs....and then given a free ticket to follow it to carry out her threat to leave if the dog goes.

 

I don't need my postings corrected thank you. I understood the word Pitbull, in the context of this thread, to mean Dog commonly known as Pitbull. If this is how DAFF describe it rather than give it a name, does that not tell you something about the inherent problems in identification.

 

Also, why highlight "imported", If you paid attention, you will see that I said I didn't believe Champ was born on Island so why highlight something which is already agreed uon?