Term Time Holiday Ban

[Stu Peters]

One of the emails I got from listeners to Talking Heads today was from someone (a mother) who made the connection that taking kids out for holidays during term-time shows a lack of respect for authority by the parents, which rubs off onto the children, and I think it's a valid point.

 

We're all increasingly keen to assert our 'rights' without considering that they come with a responsibility too.

 

Little Johnny is more than likely to rub it in to his chums that he's 'special' and that while they're busy studying, he'll be enjoying Disneyland...and Dad says there's nothing the DoE can do about it!

 

I can certainly sympathise with parents who don't want to pay silly surcharges to go with the holiday herd - but foreign holidays are a luxury, a reasonably modern phenomenon (I NEVER went abroad with my parents) and not essential. My kids are grown up now, but I would NEVER have suggested they took time off school to visit me 'off peak' when they were younger.

[Lee54]

There you go -------------> http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=25676

 

At least its sorted for now, however how to we ensure that this policy is not allowed to be enforced .Period!!

 

ML

 

So they have delayed the policy a year, how does that help the families that cant or are not allowed to take leave during school holidays.

-------------------

Stu your comments, quote>

I can certainly sympathise with parents who don't want to pay silly surcharges to go with the holiday herd - but foreign holidays are a luxury, a reasonably modern phenomenon (I NEVER went abroad with my parents) and not essential. My kids are grown up now, but I would NEVER have suggested they took time off school to visit me 'off peak' when they were younger.

 

Please explain why you feel a foreign holiday is a luxury item, Do hard working parents not deserve to have a bit of luxury time away from their day to day job or should they just take the holiday time off work and stay on the Island and enjoy the rain. What are those that have worked hard and long supposed to do with their rewards for working hard.

Our child spent much of his summer holiday doing educational projects while we had to work, should our child not be rewarded or be punished for doing extra educational projects.

At our child's school there is another child from another country who,s parents are granted a lot of time of for their child to accompany them to attend religious events in their home country, and is off school on a regular basis during the term. I'm not racist but why is this allowed, Im told that to prevent them would be a racial discrimination offence

[Cronky]

We're all increasingly keen to assert our 'rights' without considering that they come with a responsibility too.

Everyone has a different set of circumstances so a 'one size fits all' rule does not work. I need to take my kids out of school for two days before Christmas. I'm not going to say why on this public forum but I have a set of curcumstances to deal with. Granted there are some who abuse the system but I am not one of them so leave me alone.

 

My kids are grown up now, but I would NEVER have suggested they took time off school to visit me 'off peak' when they were younger.

We always had a two week holiday in July when I was in Primary School. My dad ran a seasonal business so that was the only time we could be together as a family. I will carry the experiences of those holidays with me always.

 

I listened to the programme and was struck how, whereas most of the comments on this and the Isle of Man Today bulletin board seem to be critical of the policy, most people phoning in the studio seemed in support.

 

Why do you think that was?

 

Finally, school attendance problems are far better sorted out through negotiation and consensus than blanket rules. I take my hat off to Mrs Craine for having the common sense to back down on her Departments policy.

[Jimcalagon]

One of the emails I got from listeners to Talking Heads today was from someone (a mother) who made the connection that taking kids out for holidays during term-time shows a lack of respect for authority by the parents, which rubs off onto the children, and I think it's a valid point.

 

We're all increasingly keen to assert our 'rights' without considering that they come with a responsibility too.

 

Little Johnny is more than likely to rub it in to his chums that he's 'special' and that while they're busy studying, he'll be enjoying Disneyland...and Dad says there's nothing the DoE can do about it!

 

To put it bluntly, that's somewhere between supposition and bollocks. Most parents (and I'm one) would only take their children out of school reluctantly and (barring the pitbull-owning, chav types) not as a way of putting two fingers up to the 'authorities'.

In fact this new ruling would probably do more to undermine respect for 'authority' than any number of term-time holidays would; people are far less likely to 'know their place' and tug the forelock when they can see that the people in 'authority' are petty minded bureaucrats who like to impose their rules with a rod of iron. And disingenuous statements saying that the problem is huge to support their dictats show the paucity of their argument. 15,000 days lost per year for a school population of about 15,000 children - an average of one day lost per year per child - is not a massive problem

 

I can certainly sympathise with parents who don't want to pay silly surcharges to go with the holiday herd - but foreign holidays are a luxury, a reasonably modern phenomenon (I NEVER went abroad with my parents) and not essential. My kids are grown up now, but I would NEVER have suggested they took time off school to visit me 'off peak' when they were younger.

 

As I child I went on holiday twice, once to North Wales, once to the Isle of Man - the first time I went abroad was when I was 20. However nowadays it's as cheap to holiday 'abroad' as it is to holiday in the UK - cheaper if anything - so the issue of whether a holiday is 'foreign' or not is irrelevant. I notice that all the people who are against parents taking children out during term time continually bang on about 'foreign holidays' (I can almost hear the sneer in their voices).

 

Does it make it any better if you are taking young Tarquin and Imelda for a fortnight 'experiencing' a teepee near Aberwystwyth rather than taking Billy and Mandy to Crete for two weeks of sun and sand (and taking in some Minoan Archaeological sites and Greek Culture at the same time)?

[Dr Gonzo]

Do hard working parents not deserve to have a bit of luxury time away from their day to day job or should they just take the holiday time off work and stay on the Island and enjoy the rain.

 

Should hard-working people paying their taxes to educate your children not expect you to make the most of it rather than swanning off then expecting your child to still pass their exams because teachers can always bring them up to speed afterwards?

 

At our child's school there is another child from another country who,s parents are granted a lot of time of for their child to accompany them to attend religious events in their home country, and is off school on a regular basis during the term.

 

Well, I'm sure you'd be happy to go into work on Christmas Day. Or Easter. Or Boxing Day.

 

I'm not racist but

 

Yes you are.

 

Perhaps if you sent your child to school in term time and took holidays during school holidays then they'll grow up to have better spelling and punctuation than you.

[Lee54]

Do hard working parents not deserve to have a bit of luxury time away from their day to day job or should they just take the holiday time off work and stay on the Island and enjoy the rain.

 

Should hard-working people paying their taxes to educate your children not expect you to make the most of it rather than swanning off then expecting your child to still pass their exams because teachers can always bring them up to speed afterwards?

I pay my own taxes and maybe a lot more than you, and I dont expect anyone to pay for our childrens education. Its the children that are at the bottom of the class that need bringing up to speed. Maybe if the BOE cut the number of children down in classrooms then more children would recieve a better education and quicker. Maybe the state could pay for summer schoold for those families that have to work instead of families having to pay out over £200pw

 

At our child's school there is another child from another country who,s parents are granted a lot of time of for their child to accompany them to attend religious events in their home country, and is off school on a regular basis during the term.

 

Well, I'm sure you'd be happy to go into work on Christmas Day. Or Easter. Or Boxing Day.

I had to work right through Christmas except Christmas day, work right through easter, and no Im not a policeman

I'm not racist but

 

Yes you are.

 

Perhaps if you sent your child to school in term time and took holidays during school holidays then they'll grow up to have better spelling and punctuation than you.

[Dr Gonzo]

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Don't take your children away on holiday. If they don't miss any school work, then perhaps they won't grow up to be ignorant, thick bleating racists like their parents.

[Lee54]

dont

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Don't take your children away on holiday. If they don't miss any school work, then perhaps they won't grow up to be ignorant, thick bleating racists like their parents.

 

Do you know what a Racist is

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There you go -------------> http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=25676

 

At least its sorted for now, however how to we ensure that this policy is not allowed to be enforced .Period!!

 

ML

 

So they have delayed the policy a year, how does that help the families that cant or are not allowed to take leave during school holidays.

-------------------

Stu your comments, quote>

I can certainly sympathise with parents who don't want to pay silly surcharges to go with the holiday herd - but foreign holidays are a luxury, a reasonably modern phenomenon (I NEVER went abroad with my parents) and not essential. My kids are grown up now, but I would NEVER have suggested they took time off school to visit me 'off peak' when they were younger.

 

Please explain why you feel a foreign holiday is a luxury item, Do hard working parents not deserve to have a bit of luxury time away from their day to day job or should they just take the holiday time off work and stay on the Island and enjoy the rain. What are those that have worked hard and long supposed to do with their rewards for working hard.

Our child spent much of his summer holiday doing educational projects while we had to work, should our child not be rewarded or be punished for doing extra educational projects.

At our child's school there is another child from another country who,s parents are granted a lot of time of for their child to accompany them to attend religious events in their home country, and is off school on a regular basis during the term. I'm not racist but why is this allowed, Im told that to prevent them would be a racial discrimination offence

 

What religion are they? I do not understand what the requirement is for these children to be taken ABROAD to attend the ceremonies. I know certainly from knowing quite a few Pakistani fellas that if it is Islam there is no requirement for this.

The attending of ceremonies would be classed as part of the culture of that family and their associated religious background, but I don't see how being in their own home country is a necessity. And that is based upon my relatively limited understanding of a Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity, and that people I know from these groups have never stated they needed to go back to the home country to attend ceremonies. I may be ignorant of something here.

It would help to know more. As there is a chance that the ceremonies require there to be other persons of that faith there, and obviously the Island isn't the most cosmopolitan place in the world.

[Lee54]

I don't want to get into any discussions over race or religion.

 

So to get back on topic, how many members here have a say with their employers over Holidays.

[Stu Peters]

Lee - I'm absolutely in agreement that hard-working people should be able to enjoy the rewards of that hard work, just making the point that I don't really think it's a good idea to take children out of school to enjoy those rewards too.

 

Cronky - I took the calls and read the emails and texts blind - there was absolutely no preselection or favouritism to either side of the debate. In fact I mentioned at one point that we seemed to be getting a higher than expected number of 'for the ban' opinions and actively sought opposition.

 

JimC - MOST of what I say is bollocks, although I do think ignoring school rules is a generally bad idea and breeds children who think the rules and conventions that apply to others don't apply to them. The point is that any holiday FROM the island is a foreign holiday for the purpose of this debate - sunshine or tepee.

 

Statistics - 150,000 kids and 150,000 days lost to holidays probably ISN'T 1 day per child per year. I get the impression that some parents are 'serial offenders' and I think this whole exercise is more targeted at them.

[Lee54]

Just a thought, Why not run the education system the same way as the private sector. Keep the schools open all year except for public holidays etc. It would also help solve the problem of who looks after the kids during the usual holidays, no need for high cost summer school or child minders for the working families to pay for.

[Skeddan]

Statistics - 150,000 kids and 150,000 days lost to holidays

Lies, damn lies, and - oh my god - massive population explosion with serious infestation of kids! Better send as many as can away otherwise there'll be no room in the school.

 

I do think ignoring school rules is a generally bad idea and breeds children who think the rules and conventions that apply to others don't apply to them.

It's a fair point. But look back at what John Wright said - its not a law, it's a policy. Look also at his suggestion for how to deal with this - if go about this the right way, it's not going to be amiss is it?

 

At our child's school there is another child from another country who,s parents are granted a lot of time of for their child to accompany them to attend religious events in their home country, and is off school on a regular basis during the term.

Like LDV, I am very curious about this. Please could you give some more info about this Lee54. (It is 'on topic' - after all its about time off out of term - but for specific reason).

[Lost Login]

I get the impression that some parents are 'serial offenders' and I think this whole exercise is more targeted at them.

 

I agree that it was probably aimed at the serial offenders not at those taking the odd day each year or a week or so once evey few year for a special trip. However they applied the measure and treated everybody identically. If they had reiterated or reinforced the guidelines fine, or even targeted the serial offenders who they will know who they are from school records then fine. But no we had the heavy handed ill thought out action which was understandably going to annoy many responsible parents.

 

I am surprised that this taking action of taking of a blanket approach to solve a narrow and defined problem is not one that you recognise and have strong opinions on. When to try and rectify "bad" driving in the IoM and to stop individuals of whatever age driving at an inappropriate speed they suggested an all Island speed limit, from memory you were very opposed to it. To me the actions and results seem very to have a very similar basis. i.e using a broad brush approach which will also effect the majority of responsible drivers/parents to target the irresponsible ones when there are already better ways of targetting that minority

[Cronky]

Cronky - I took the calls and read the emails and texts blind - there was absolutely no preselection or favouritism to either side of the debate. In fact I mentioned at one point that we seemed to be getting a higher than expected number of 'for the ban' opinions and actively sought opposition.

 

Point taken, have a great weekend!