P.K. Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Actually, I have - and it's a very nice place, with terrific access to some of the finest scenery and best ancient monuments in the UK. Architecturally much nicer than Leeds. But Leeds has Whitelocks which is one of my favourite pubs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 But Leeds has Whitelocks which is one of my favourite pubs.... Topic for a new thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Generally speaking, the USA has tried to make immigrants become apple-pie Americans, whilst Europeans have tended to let people continue to do their own thing. In my view, the American way has worked better; although there are tensions in America, these are mainly to do with the "indigenous" black population, and illegal Hispanics. There seems to be little problem with immigrants from the Middle East, the sub-continent, and points East. I am therefore, on pragmatic grounds, in favour of immigrants being assimilated into the culture and traditions of their host nation. But why do you advocate assimilation? What does 'work' better mean? I quite agree with what you imply, black people who have lost their culture and conformed to the values of white society are far more acceptable to British society and employers. Do this mean it was good that they became damn good Englishman? I don't think it necessarily does, because something is lost that I think is important. And it was lost under the pressures that were racist. I have read instances in the papers when some Muslim idiot is being treated preferentially because of their religion after they had complained or grumbled about something. Unfortunately, these people are not told to simply make do, or even 'tough shit' because there is absolutely no requirement to sidestep people because of their religious beliefs. But I think the idea of assimilation is repugnant. It is about pressuring people to lose their identity and reform another one which is more acceptable. Assimilation is just a way of making people more acceptable. Nobody forced people to come here. "When in Rome........" has always seemed a pretty good motto to me. Yeah but so what. Simply because they have entered another nation does not mean there is a requirement to behave exactly like the citizens of that country. And no changes have been wrought to affect the lives of British people. You respect customs where doing so is considered polite and makes life easier, but to actually assimilate is quite another thing. The over-crowdedness of of the UK is not an issue in my view. Yes, the country is densely populated, but there are far more densely populated areas in the world. But even if density was a very real problem, there is little that can be done about it, and in fact I don't think anything in the conventional sense should be done about, i.e. having a more strict immigration policy. It is a problem, however, that these communities form ghettoes as it limits the cultural exchanged between these peoples. It is as much a product of these peoples own racism (and I use the term loosely) and that of the 'indigenous' population. Sorry, but here I think you are completely wrong. Over-population is the root cause of most of the problems we have, globally and locally. Over-fishing, pollution, high house prices, poor air quality, the coming wars over water, immigration, oil prices, you name it. I would put the blame on the capitalist system, not on over-population itself. But you are talking about assimilation too. Maybe one of the reasons why these people don't want mix is because they quite rightly are telling everyone else to piss off, that they do not wish to assimilate and lose their culture. Maybe they would be far more willing to simply communicate and mix, but not integrate and assimilate. It is not that I don't recognise the problems the problems with 'ghettoes' area or even areas which are wholly of a particular ethnic group, but given the racism in Britain and the racism of those moving here it is something that may be with us for a while. I don't think having Euopean settlers over the UK makes that much of a difference and I think it racist to differentiate between what region a person is coming from. Yes the cultural differences will be less profound, but other Europeans would be no more willing to assimilate than anyone else. I disagree. Show me a second generation Polish immigrant who still speaks Polish as a first language. European immigrants tend to become wholly assimilated in two generations, despite retaining cultural and family ties with their original home country. It's because we have so much in common to start with. I think it has more to do with how people are homed and how they treated by the surrounded indigenous peoples. The Irish in Manchester for example have tended hold together in Longsight. Jamaicans have integrated very quickly as well. As far as I am concerned, this is not racism, it's being practical. I have Muslim and Hindu friends and discuss these matters with them. They recognise the problem themselves, but they don't live in the ghettoes. They have assimilated. They play golf. Assimilationist attitudes tend to be racist or xenophobic because there is the assumption that people of another culture should change and conform to the dominant culture in the area. We you joking with the golf comment? Hahaha. It was funny. Assimilation is the easy and understandable way of dealing with racism and xenophobia. If you won't or cannot effectively challenge racism, or find it puts you or your family at too much risk the best option is to assimilate. But again, this is not necessarily a good thing. Anyway, this is drifting from Gurkhas, and I am running out of arguments. Thank you for debating the issue rather than resorting to name-calling. I hope you have less objections to their residency if they are planning to learn golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Petition now at http://www.gurkhajustice.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 cheers bluemonday it's signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Two faced Browns government wriggle out again http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8014265.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Two faced Browns government wriggle out again http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8014265.stm What more can you expect from a bunch of 2 faced socialist lying bastards, they think more of giving handouts to a bunch of scroungers who illegaly enter the country than looking after a group of honest hard working loyal men who fought for them for a pittence of pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 "Rule of Law" UK style...hopefully the Conservatives will overturn this typical parsimonious example of New Labour prevarication in a few months time....typical example of what to expect from a UK PM who will give you £150 for turning up to work (or to go shopping in London) if you are an MP. He's got his priorities focused on saving his own back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 What more can you expect from a bunch of 2 faced socialist lying bastards, they think more of giving handouts to a bunch of scroungers who illegaly enter the country than looking after a group of honest hard working loyal men who fought for them for a pittence of pay Oh Jimbms, you have such noble and heart warming perspectives on things at times, such as with supporting these Ghurkas, then you go and ruin it all by ignorantly criticising immigrants into the British Isles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 "Rule of Law" UK style...hopefully the Conservatives will overturn this typical parsimonious example of New Labour prevarication in a few months time....typical example of what to expect from a UK PM who will give you £150 for turning up to work (or to go shopping in London) if you are an MP. He's got his priorities focused on saving his own back... Bloody hope the Tories don't get in government. New Labour are the lesser of two evils (though slightly worse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 They had to draw a line in the sand and they have. It's called government. Something those on Mannin are not used to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 They had to draw a line in the sand and they have. It's called government. Something those on Mannin are not used to.... It's where you draw the line that counts...I think we are more than used to lines be drawn by the Island Government - like the UK one they seem adept at drawing them in the wrong place! Its called misgovernment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 But they are not citizens of a Commonwealth country. Nepal has never been in the Empire or the Commonwealth. They were not being discriminated against. They are completely foreign people who accepted money to kill enemies of Britain. True but even if paid they fought for our country at great personal sacrifice. When you consider the tidal wave of human detritus that the UK accepts daily either legally or illegally you have to arrive at the decision that the Gurkhas have been abysmally treated. If you're a Somalian rapist or cop killer it seems to be that there is nothing that the legal system can do to kick you out even if you commit further crimes on British soil - but a pile of old gentlemen who have fought for British Army then that's a totally different matter. Our value system is completely warped I'm afraid. Gordon Brown should hang his head in shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Todays Times provides some figures: Some 200,000 fought for the Allies in the First and Second World Wars. The Gurkhas have won 6,500 medals for gallantry fighting under the British flag, including 13 Victoria Crosses. 50,000 died fighting for the British. There are now about 3,500 serving Gurkhas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Our value system is completely warped I'm afraid. Gordon Brown should hang his head in shame. I don't know what you mean at all. Todays Times provides some figures: Some 200,000 fought for the Allies in the First and Second World Wars. The Gurkhas have won 6,500 medals for gallantry fighting under the British flag, including 13 Victoria Crosses. 50,000 died fighting for the British. There are now about 3,500 serving Gurkhas. But is this really where the "pro-Gurkha" argument comes from - service in the British Army? Getting a bit confused as to where the main justification for their immigration rests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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