Moghrey Mie Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The Department of Health and Social Security today announced that the United Kingdom, as part of an overall review of the health agreements it has with other nations, has indicated its intention to end the Bilateral Agreement (often referred to as the Reciprocal Agreement) it has with the Isle of Man. It has already given formal notice terminating the agreement with the Channel Islands. It must be strongly emphasised that this will not affect the major element of the Isle of Man’s relationship with the UK – the referral of patients to the UK for treatment, which is fully funded by the Isle of Man Government at a cost of approximately £6M per year. There will be an effect on financial arrangements covering emergency or immediately necessary treatment provided to UK residents by the Isle of Man Health Service and to Isle of Man residents by the UK National Health Service. Currently, emergency or immediately necessary treatment provided to UK residents by the Isle of Man Health Service is paid for by the UK Government (currently approximately £2M a year). When the Agreement ends, the UK government will no longer pay for this. Whilst the details are yet to be finalised, it is also likely that the ending of the Agreement will affect those Manx residents who require free emergency or immediately necessary treatment whilst visiting the UK. Whilst their initial treatment will remain free, any resultant admission to hospital for inpatient treatment or surgery will have to be paid for by the patient. Similarly, UK residents visiting the Isle of Man will receive free initial emergency or immediately necessary treatment, but will be required to pay if they are admitted to hospital. No date for the termination of the Agreement has yet been agreed, but it is unlikely to be before 2010. It is clear, however, that this will, in due course, have a significant impact on the already stretched Isle of Man Health budget and over the next few weeks and months, the DHSS will be considering how to ensure that there is no adverse effect on the services provided. It is also clear that the existing DHSS advice to those travelling off island remains extremely important. The advice is that those travelling off the Isle of Man, even if only to the UK, should have travel insurance, which covers emergency health needs, most importantly including repatriation to the Isle of Man if necessary. Eddie Teare MHK, Minister for Health and Social Security said, “This is another major challenge for the Isle of Man. I am greatly reassured, however, that the most important element of our relationship with the UK – referrals to the UK NHS for treatment we cannot provide on the Isle of Man – is unaffected by the UK’s decision. It also shows how important the work already undertaken has been to ensure the Manx taxpayer receives a cost-effective health service.” If you insist on being 'different' - not part of the UK and not part of the EU,where EHIC European Health Insurance Card (formerly E111) covers health insurance in any European country, you have to take the consequences. Time to join Europe and get some of the advantages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I have a son at Uni and wondering what the score is now if he needs any treatment? It seems like if your Manx you'll be queuing up with the crack whores and the Somali warlords to get whatever free treatment is going. Its worse than being an illegal immigrant - a British subject with no right to UK healthcare. To me the IOM should now kill the social security agreement and any english or EU people turning up wanting reciprocal benefits and free NHS treatment can stick it up their arses. that's a fair option - valid insurance certificates can be checked along with passports at Heysham and Liverpool and those without refused passage - the more sensible agreement is to see why the UK wants to end the scheme - if it feels that it is unfairly subsidizing the Manx NHS then maybe it would be more sensible to sort out a financial package - if the Island however feels it is paying too much then your son will be one of those who will have to pick up the tab effectively moving from a national insurance scheme to individual pays if things happen off Island - such schemes are always more costly as for example compare the USA vs UK overheads in healthcare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 that's a fair option - valid insurance certificates can be checked along with passports at Heysham and Liverpool and those without refused passage - the more sensible agreement is to see why the UK wants to end the scheme - if it feels that it is unfairly subsidizing the Manx NHS then maybe it would be more sensible to sort out a financial package Frances, its actually maybe time to privatise healthcare here. Make all the english and EU citizens take out private healthcare before they come and spend some of the £300 odd million we spend on the DHSS here on providing free private care for Manx resident taxpayers. I bet it costs a damn sight less to do this than to run the hospital and Manx NHS at present. It would probably save over £100m a year. Then you sell Nobles to Bupa for £150m or lease it out over 25 years and unlock even more cash - they can use it as a tax free medical centre for the globally mobile rich. You'd have an offshore centre of excellence for medical services within 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 that's a fair option - valid insurance certificates can be checked along with passports at Heysham and Liverpool and those without refused passage - the more sensible agreement is to see why the UK wants to end the scheme - if it feels that it is unfairly subsidizing the Manx NHS then maybe it would be more sensible to sort out a financial package Frances, its actually maybe time to privatise healthcare here. Make all the english and EU citizens take out private healthcare before they come and spend some of the £300 odd million we spend on the DHSS here on providing free private care for Manx resident taxpayers. I bet it costs a damn sight less to do this than to run the hospital and Manx NHS at present. It would probably save over £100m a year. Then you sell Nobles to Bupa for £150m or lease it out over 25 years and unlock even more cash - they can use it as a tax free medical centre for the globally mobile rich. You'd have an offshore centre of excellence for medical services within 3 years. You don't drink in the Manx Arms do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spermann Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I can see the IOM government losing out on this one due to all of the high risk motor sporting events that we have with off island competitors. I am sure that there will be a higher cost of emergancy treatment over here than what there will be for Manx residents in the UK. I suspect that id the UK govt charge IOM residents for medical care in the UK then the IOM will charge non visitors for medical care over here. They already do it for foreign visitors in TT week, etc. My point is for emergancy treatment, i.e. RTA incidents (TT week etc, where it is more likely to cost the IOM Government more than its UK counter part) and how is emergancy treatment defined? could a headache be a migrane, hangover or brain tumer? who defines the goal posts?? How often do you seek medical care for a headache or hangover? I dont, i am making the point that a headache could be just a migrane or it could be something serious such as a brain tumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 No as its all down to your national insurance No. A Manx resident working in the UK under a Manx NI No will have his or her payments credited to the IOM DHSS That's an interesting one. What happens if you have an N.I. number issued in the UK but are a Manx worker over here? Would you need medical insurance to be treated locally, even though to all intents and purposes you are a local resident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 No as its all down to your national insurance No. A Manx resident working in the UK under a Manx NI No will have his or her payments credited to the IOM DHSS That's an interesting one. What happens if you have an N.I. number issued in the UK but are a Manx worker over here? Would you need medical insurance to be treated locally, even though to all intents and purposes you are a local resident? People will be treated as Manx or UK residents depending on where their permanent home is and where they are registered with a GP Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Tell Queen Elizabeth This is a jobsworths idea. Utter madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Details are yet to be worked out, but it is unlikely to be as simple as the report makes out. Some IoM residents will still be exempt from all NHS charges - e.g. people in UK • for the purposes of employment and where the employer’s principal place of business is in the UK or is registered in the UK as a branch of an overseas company; or self employment where the employment is in the UK • people who have lived lawfully for 10 continuous years in the UK but who are now working abroad and have not been away for more than 5 years • people who receive UK war pensions • pursuing a full time course of study of not less than 6 months in duration or pursuing a course of study of any duration that is substantially funded by HM Government Then you get people who are exempt from charges for treatment the need for which arose during their visit to the UK. e.g. • UK state pensioners who have either lived lawfully in the UK for 10 continuous years or have been employed by the UK government for 10 continuous years at some point, or their spouse or school-age children. This sets out the rules: http://www.lmc.org.uk/downloadfile.aspx?pa...torsmarch06.doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 It seems like if your Manx you'll be queuing up with the crack whores and the Somali warlords to get whatever free treatment is going. That'll probably be more entertaining than thumbing through old copies of Readers Digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I have a son at Uni and wondering what the score is now if he needs any treatment? It seems like if your Manx you'll be queuing up with the crack whores and the Somali warlords to get whatever free treatment is going. Its worse than being an illegal immigrant - a British subject with no right to UK healthcare. To me the IOM should now kill the social security agreement and any english or EU people turning up wanting reciprocal benefits and free NHS treatment can stick it up their arses. Who invited the Daily Mail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 A person that lives on the island permanently but works for a company not based here and works off island will be subject to double taxation, he will pay tax at his place of work and also on his return to the island but will be subject to double tax relief. Tax and NI work together and the rules are not that straight forward as some may expect. Even those from the UK that have been working and living on the island but then become unemployed or sick will have their benefits paid by the UK Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 With the percentage of resident pensioners soon to be approaching 27% on the island, compared to 15% in the UK, methinks we could soon really be paying the price for the miguided 'immigration policy' the islands' government have been following. As well as pushing local workers out of the housing market by buying up most of the first time buyer properties, immigrant pensioners will now be expecting the same poor sods to pay for the care and health they need also. If things are to pan out as it would seem in this thread, don't underestimate what this could cost us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 If you insist on being 'different' - not part of the UK and not part of the EU,where EHIC European Health Insurance Card (formerly E111) covers health insurance in any European country, you have to take the consequences. Time to join Europe and get some of the advantages? The Isle of Man only insists on being 'different' when it suits, ie for skimming off lots of ££money from the UK and the rest of the World, and having our own Government and Laws to assist in that endeavour. Otherwise, and when it suits, the Isle of Man is more than happy to be a part of the United Kingdom and suck up to Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 You don't drink in the Manx Arms do you? Good god no why would anyone want to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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