%age Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 It's all irrelevant, the 'power of fear' siren has just gone off in Douglas signalling the end, so kiss your arse goodbye. Either that or it's feeding time for those MHK Morlocks again. I predict that when someone drops an atom bomb or something on the Isle of Man, they will choose 11 O'clock one Saturday morning, or perhaps a couple of minutes past eleven when the test siren is just winding down, so that they can have a bit of a giggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I believe you when you say that it is currently £7. It will be more than that when the insurance companies are having to cover Uk medical expenses. Also that is for one trip. How many people on the island go across to the UK multiple times a year - for shopping, visiting relatives or for onward travel to other locations? It all mounts up. What's hard to grasp here? Travel insurance covering medical expenses to different countries is already a reality. Why are you treating it like some kind of unknown? If it's under a tenner to get insurance now to anywhere in Europe, why will it suddenly become more expensive once this agreement stops? You're saying the tiny pool of manx residents makes any difference? It doesn't. I don't why you are having trouble with this concept. I'll try to spell it out simply and clearly. Currently, if you are Manx and want travel insurance for a trip to the UK, the insurance policy will not cover medical expenses as you are covered by the NHS reciprocal agreement - the insurance is to cover other emergency expenses, e.g. cancellations, missed connections etc. When the agreement ends, the insurance will not only have to cover anything that it currently covers, it will also have to provide for medical expenses and repatriation. This will obviously be an extra expense to the insurer who will pass it on to the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 The majority of the £300 million goes on paying out benefits, incapacity, jobseekers, old age pension etc. The cost of running the health service is much less than that; anyone know? Probably about £100 million I would gueess. The actual figures are here. http://www.gov.im/dhss/about/budget_info.xml If you include health and social services its about 50 / 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Lets consider another point, there are people who come here from the UK because in some areas the waiting list is so long for operations whereas if the live here for a short time, see a consultant as a resident, then get the op quicker, then after recovery piss off back across, this may now stop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Lets consider another point, there are people who come here from the UK because in some areas the waiting list is so long for operations whereas if the live here for a short time, see a consultant as a resident, then get the op quicker, then after recovery piss off back across, this may now stop that. Do you know of any actual cases where this has happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Lets consider another point, there are people who come here from the UK because in some areas the waiting list is so long for operations whereas if the live here for a short time, see a consultant as a resident, then get the op quicker, then after recovery piss off back across, this may now stop that. Do you know of any actual cases where this has happened? Several, one person I know took a job here so he could get his daughter treated due to the fact the waiting list in his area was so long and our consultant here was one of the best. Don't get me wrong I don't blame him I would have done the same if I had a daughter in that much pain with that condition. As soon as she the treatment was over he moved back as he always intended to. That is more a reflection on the piss poor NHS across than our health service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Frances, its actually maybe time to privatise healthcare here. Make all the english and EU citizens take out private healthcare before they come and spend some of the £300 odd million we spend on the DHSS here on providing free private care for Manx resident taxpayers. I bet it costs a damn sight less to do this than to run the hospital and Manx NHS at present. It would probably save over £100m a year. A lot hinges on how you define 'Manx resident taxpayers'. An EU worker living in IoM even if just over for a short time is currently treated as a Manx resident. I think you'd agree you also have to provide medical care for Manx resident non-taxpayers - so the issue then is really to do with 'Manx resident'. One approach might be to limit free healthcare to people roughly along lines of criteria of an "Isle of Man worker" - i.e. being born on the Island, resident for at least five years, married to an "Isle of Man worker" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 A lot hinges on how you define 'Manx resident taxpayers'. An EU worker living in IoM even if just over for a short time is currently treated as a Manx resident. I think you'd agree you also have to provide medical care for Manx resident non-taxpayers - so the issue then is really to do with 'Manx resident'. Maybe we should re-define what is a manx resident? It would be easy to distinguish being "tax resident" and "resident for social security purposes". You could make it like the pensions supplement - you only qualify once you have paid a certain amount of NI or worked here a number of years. Another thing: You're maybe the expert here and I'd have to go back and re-read Protocol Three - but I think from memory that its only the reciprocal agreements we have with the UK which define our obligations with the EU (ie, we are only "in" to the extent that our agreements with the UK bring us in). You say we "have" to provide for an EU worker? Why? The IoM itself is not in the UK (or the EU) and clearly with the breaking of this agreement our connection with the UK in terms of having to provide reciprocal healthcare services to UK residents (and by extension EU citizens) is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 Everytime I go to the hospital there are no manx people in it. None of these people have paid into the social security system here and yet seem to be its main users. I know of many cases where family flying in from all over the world just turn up pretend to be living here and get treated free gratis courtesy of the manx taxpayer. I don't believe I've ever read such utter bollocks in my life. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 Several, one person I know took a job here so he could get his daughter treated due to the fact the waiting list in his area was so long and our consultant here was one of the best. Don't get me wrong I don't blame him I would have done the same if I had a daughter in that much pain with that condition. As soon as she the treatment was over he moved back as he always intended to. That is more a reflection on the piss poor NHS across than our health service. Sorry, Localyokel I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Several, one person I know took a job here so he could get his daughter treated due to the fact the waiting list in his area was so long and our consultant here was one of the best. Don't get me wrong I don't blame him I would have done the same if I had a daughter in that much pain with that condition. As soon as she the treatment was over he moved back as he always intended to. That is more a reflection on the piss poor NHS across than our health service. Sorry, Oldmanxfella. I was wrong. Well done Joe Public you have a great tallent in insulting people with no facts to back up the load of bollocks your talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Surely its a question of resources here. Everytime I go to the hospital there are no manx people in it. None of these people have paid into the social security system here and yet seem to be its main users. I know of many cases where family flying in from all over the world just turn up pretend to be living here and get treated free gratis courtesy of the manx taxpayer. I don't believe I've ever read such utter bollocks in my life. Well done. Read the quote .... its not mine. Its somebody who replied to my post, not my words at all. Learn to read!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Surely its a question of resources here. Everytime I go to the hospital there are no manx people in it. None of these people have paid into the social security system here and yet seem to be its main users. I know of many cases where family flying in from all over the world just turn up pretend to be living here and get treated free gratis courtesy of the manx taxpayer. I don't believe I've ever read such utter bollocks in my life. Well done. Read the quote .... its not mine. Its somebody who replied to my post, not my words at all. Learn to read!! I do apologise sir. I was spluttering at the screen and did indeed misquote you. Duly edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Several, one person I know took a job here so he could get his daughter treated due to the fact the waiting list in his area was so long and our consultant here was one of the best. Don't get me wrong I don't blame him I would have done the same if I had a daughter in that much pain with that condition. As soon as she the treatment was over he moved back as he always intended to. That is more a reflection on the piss poor NHS across than our health service. Sorry, lokalyokel, I was wrong. Well done Joe Public you have a great tallent in insulting people with no facts to back up the load of bollocks your talking I wasn't trying to insult you, you're probably a very nice chap. It's just that you posted a load of bollocks. There are waiting lists here, the same as across. In some cases you'll wait longer here. That's why some departments have waiting list initiatives, and for someone to circumvent the system by getting a job here, bringing his daughter over, putting her on the waiting list here and then having her treated by one of the top consultants in the UK smacks of anecdotal nonsense. Sorry if I upset you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invigilator Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I know this thread concerns the affects of the loss of this agreement to IOM residents but it does affect visitors to the Island. When my family have visited the Island we have had to visit your local doctors on a couple of occasions. With the costs of visiting the Island going up, this will add to an already high cost of travelling and staying on the Island. People from across see the IOM as part of the UK so willnot expect to pay for travel insurance to cover medical expenses. How will this affect your tourist industry which is already beleagered, being reliant on TT and other motor sports. My family have always enjoyed our stays on the IOM but I am afraid because of mounting costs will not be returning. I am afraid this has put the final nail in the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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