Redundancies

[gazza]

Boredom is really Tom, from 'The Good Life'.

 

I claim my prize.

 

To me the mid nineties were the good life - when we had a strong national identity and before we fucked everything up and started spending money we didn't have on stuff we didn't need because deep down we knew we were just small businessmen, farmers and hoteliers and didn't have delusions about being geniuses in international finance !

 

No, I am not mad.

 

So you're happy for other people to lose their jobs and be forced to leave, but you want to stay just as you are. That's my question answered, cheers.

 

Not happy about job losses but its a fact of life. People came over here because of the boom, they'll go back again when its over and better employment chances exist elsewhere. Its human nature. It does not require a long explanation. Its simply what happens when things change. Manx people are the stakeholders in the future as we want to stay here no matter what.

 

what are calling manx ppl,

born and breed,or would thay have to be here so long to be called manx, what do you call a manx stakeholder!!!!,

and to be honest some of the ppl that have come over here and employed manx ppl, which u think is wrong that it should be the manx running the company, prob coulden do it,

 

i allways take the piss, yep come overs theres a boat, but to be fair, a lot of experance has been brought with these ppl not all but most,

and i think the island has gained a lot because of it,

[Slim]

Not happy about job losses but its a fact of life. People came over here because of the boom, they'll go back again when its over and better employment chances exist elsewhere. Its human nature. It does not require a long explanation. Its simply what happens when things change. Manx people are the stakeholders in the future as we want to stay here no matter what and were here before times were that good in the first place.

 

Heh, seen your reply change 3 times, and it still boils down to 'I'm aright jack'.

 

What makes you immune from this readjustment? What if it's your job that goes and you're replaced by someone cheaper who's not got a mortgage to service?

[gazza]

I'd learn to write properly before you get too critical.

 

And i can be as critical as i want to be honest, i coulden really care if my writeing aint up to much,

 

but then sometimes when ppl are backed into a corner and have no way out thay start to use insults as there only weapon

 

just that if lots of UK born execs who have come over here in the last 15 years had to move back because of the economy and better job opps in the UK it would create more opportunities for locals which might not be too bad.

 

 

thats all well if the thay can do the job, which im sure some can, but there must be a reason why all the execs have come here to run the company, thay can do the job,

 

why not do the same for mangers as well of companys, get rid of them and replace with manx,

i dont mind whos doing he job, be it hes manx english irish whatever as long as there the best person for the job

[pongo]

What you are saying is important stuff Slim - I know that.

 

But suppose that the finance sector (and this level of employment in general) is not sustainable into the long term. Which is a possibility.

 

Then what do we do?

 

There is no point in an argument* about whether we would want to ditch the finance sector. The finance sector has done very well for the island on the back of a world economic bubble. The debate should be about what we will do if we are faced with a situation when the demise of offshore finance, its advantage to investors, is inevitable.

 

Meanwhile - one of the problems of the past decades (not just here but everywhere) has been [edit] an over emphasis on[/edit] constant growth. Instead of just doing - okay.

 

* no point in an argument at all obviously - just a discussion

[oldmanxfella]

But suppose that the finance sector (and this level of employment in general) is not sustainable into the long term. Which is a possibility.

 

Then what do we do?

 

That is a very good point and one that I think Alistair Darling has alluded to in the Pre Budget Report when he talks about the UK Gov analysing the Islands' long term business strategies. Maybe our strategy is not compatible with the fiscal environment moving forward, and maybe it would be better for our government to admit that and start changing the way we generate revenue and the way our economy is exposed to the vagaries of the global banking and financial services industries.

[Slim]

What you are saying is important stuff Slim - I know that.

But suppose that the finance sector (and this level of employment in general) is not sustainable into the long term. Which is a possibility.

Then what do we do?

 

Meanwhile - one of the problems of the past decades (not just here but everywhere) has been over optimistic expectations of constant growth. Instead of just doing - okay.

 

I'm at odds over this. I'm a greenie, I'm also credit averse. I live on little, I save, I don't have any loans for anything apart from my mortgage, don't have a credit card balance. I saved hard for that mortgage, and did the sensible thing, a good deposit low multiple of salary mortgage. So for many reasons I agree with Boredoms sentiment, I'd like a smaller and more sustainable economy, I'd prefer it if people had less disposable income so wasted less, I'd like people to buy local and people be employed in local businesses producing goods here rather than having things shipped round the world. I'd like to see our dosh for power spent on renewables employing locals than on gas going to russia.

 

But I know the reality, that the reward from financial services far far exceeds anything else, and you don't need the physical infrastructure other industry needs. We can't, in my view, build the population needed to be self sufficient without having the cash finance brings.

 

I work in finance, I'm manx, and I don't want to lose my house, but if financial jobs go in large numbers and mine with them, and my house drops in value so I can't afford the mortgage and I'm left with a debt that outweighs the value, I'm stuffed. What did I do wrong? You say you want it back how it was, but you can't have that without hurting an awful lot of people and the majority of those who'll suffer the most are young couples who managed to scrape themselves onto the housing ladder.

 

How do you manage a transition? Is it just tough?

[pongo]

You say you want it back how it was, but you can't have that without hurting an awful lot of people and the majority of those who'll suffer the most are young couples who managed to scrape themselves onto the housing ladder.

 

I'm not saying I want it back how it was - that was Boredom et al. I'm just saying that I think we should be thinking about Plan B if the Finance Sector is not sustainable.

 

And when I use the word sustainable - I do not mean that in a greenie way. There may inevitably be no long term future for offshore finance anywhere. But I do not think that would happen over night. I think that there would be time scales set.

 

I do not mean that I necessarily want us to have a smaller economy - I'm postulating that without the Finance Sector there may not be anything else which would support so many people in work here - so a smaller economy would be inevitable.

[Slim]

I'm not saying I want it back how it was - that was Boredom et al. I'm just saying that I think we should be thinking about Plan B if the Finance Sector is not sustainable.

 

And when I use the word sustainable - I do not mean that in a greenie way. There may inevitably be no long term future for offshore finance anywhere. But I do not think that would happen over night. I think that there would be time scales set.

 

I do not mean that I necessarily want us to have a smaller economy - I'm postulating that without the Finance Sector there may not be anything else which would support so many people in work here - so a smaller economy would be inevitable.

 

Yeah, sorry, that was to those who were wanting finance to go away.

 

The government looks to be trying quite hard to diversify, they've had a fair bit of success with engineering and gambling and they're putting a lot of effort into keeping farming going, with mixed results. We have been quite dynamic adapting to threats over the last ten years, so they might pull something out of the hat.

 

I think your right though, the short reality we face currently is the same as many countries, we're all going to somehow have to get by on about 30% less income and very little lending. That doesn't mean offshore finance is going to fly off, but that it's going to be a lot leaner to be competative. It's how we cope with the adjustment that worries me, I think we should expect more redundancies, and a reduction in population which will only make things worse for a time.

 

Some good news though, I heard Woolies was going to be a pizza hut!

 

There's no point worrying about it until it happens but I was just trying to point out that 15 years ago we had very different aspirations, expectations, levels of debt, and exposure to the whims of big corporate employers. Personally I found that much easier to deal with, and if it goes back to that then I'm not really that concerned ...... long-term.

 

Agreed. I look at my grandad in his council house, he came with nowt, he's going out with nowt. He's had a bloody hard life, but he's fed and as healthy as his age allows and he's certainly not stressed about his mortgage or his exchange rate to the barbados dollar at any time of his life. I wonder who made the better choices?

[pongo]

The government looks to be trying quite hard to diversify, they've had a fair bit of success with engineering and gambling

 

One of the problems is that IOM companies cannot apply for EU sponsored projects, R&D, development grants etc - or even to be directly involved in joint ventures which have a degree of EU involvement.

 

Gambling: right or wrong, that's another business which does not necessarily attract the right sort of attention.

[Virginia P]

What did the Finance Sector ever do for us?

 

Apart from the Sulby reservoir and up to date water filtration plants?

 

A modern sewage system instead of pumping sh*t into the sea?

 

A state of art modern Hospital instead of a cramped third rate third world facility?

 

A brand spanking new Power Station, good for 40 years, instead of predicted sporadic power cuts?

 

An incinerator instead of burying all our crap in the ground?

 

A great sports centre (NSC) which has played a major part in improving our sporting prowess and youth?

 

Virtually zero unemployment instead of 2000+ on the dole?

 

Funds to provide far better benefits for the pensioners, disabled and unemployed than the UK?

 

Superb refurbished theatre and Villa Marina entertainment complex?

 

 

If the Finance Sector goes, at least the money was put into a superb infrastructure and has been used wisely, and there is not much major left to do. Infrastructure wise, the basics of life, water, power, health, sport and benefits have been put in place. We have it good at the moment - everything is in place to see us into the future.

 

/Waits for all the crap bits, like no ice-rink, nightclubs closed, overspends etc.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

What did the Finance Sector ever do for us?

 

Apart from the Sulby reservoir and up to date water filtration plants?

 

A modern sewage system instead of pumping sh*t into the sea?

 

A state of art modern Hospital instead of a cramped third rate third world facility?

 

A brand spanking new Power Station, good for 40 years, instead of predicted sporadic power cuts?

 

An incinerator instead of burying all our crap in the ground?

 

A great sports centre (NSC) which has played a major part in improving our sporting prowess and youth?

 

Virtually zero unemployment instead of 2000+ on the dole?

 

Funds to provide far better benefits for the pensioners, disabled and unemployed than the UK?

 

Superb refurbished theatre and Villa Marina entertainment complex?

 

 

If the Finance Sector goes, at least the money was put into a superb infrastructure and has been used wisely, and there is not much major left to do. Infrastructure wise, the basics of life, water, power, health, sport and benefits have been put in place. We have it good at the moment - everything is in place to see us into the future.

 

/Waits for all the crap bits, like no ice-rink, nightclubs closed, overspends etc.

 

You are right, the Island would be very very different if the finance sector never grew on the Island.

 

What I do not understand is why everyone is focusing so much on finance sector. This is a very bad financial crisis but its effects are going to be seen across the economy. Why the talk about diversifying the economy? Though I think there is little hope of doing that if it were desired I don't understand why it is being discussed. Is it simply the case that people are really trying to rack their brains for a solution?

[spermann]

What did the Finance Sector ever do for us?

 

Apart from the Sulby reservoir and up to date water filtration plants?

 

A modern sewage system instead of pumping sh*t into the sea?

 

A state of art modern Hospital instead of a cramped third rate third world facility?

 

A brand spanking new Power Station, good for 40 years, instead of predicted sporadic power cuts?

 

An incinerator instead of burying all our crap in the ground?

 

A great sports centre (NSC) which has played a major part in improving our sporting prowess and youth?

 

Virtually zero unemployment instead of 2000+ on the dole?

 

Funds to provide far better benefits for the pensioners, disabled and unemployed than the UK?

 

Superb refurbished theatre and Villa Marina entertainment complex?

 

 

If the Finance Sector goes, at least the money was put into a superb infrastructure and has been used wisely, and there is not much major left to do. Infrastructure wise, the basics of life, water, power, health, sport and benefits have been put in place. We have it good at the moment - everything is in place to see us into the future.

 

/Waits for all the crap bits, like no ice-rink, nightclubs closed, overspends etc.

 

New and renovated schools.

 

New pools in both Peel and Ramsey

 

If vessels sink in our waters we recover the bodies

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[thesultanofsheight]

If vessels sink in our waters we recover the bodies

 

Now you're clutching at straws

[keyboarder]

What about the enormous sense of general wellbeing? I sometimes stroll down Athol Street and just spontaneously burst into song.

[thesultanofsheight]

What about the enormous sense of general wellbeing? I sometimes stroll down Athol Street and just spontaneously burst into song.

 

Maybe that's just the coke?