Tempus Fugit Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Un-monitored cctv is as useful as a chocolate teapot, it's all very well claiming that they catch criminals but very rarely as the images are so fuzzy, and should be there to prevent crime. As with recent events, attacks now take place in back lanes just out of sight of the cameras, it doesn't prevent the crime. I think all cctv should be streamed on the internet so that everyone can see what is being filmed, not kept secret, that way the 'big brother' element evaporates. With the loss of Governement funds by being scattered around in the hope of gaining a little interest they should not be even considering ANY new expenses until the situation has stabilised. I also cannot see why government funds are not purely under the control of treasury rather than let Tom, Dick and Harry play at managing their bag of gold, it should be treasury who make all government payments and control all government funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Which is the better deterrent to crime? More police activity on the streets particulaly at night and on foot with police dogs or a system to collect film footage for use as possible evidence after the crime is over and the victim has been robbed or assaulted? CCTV is the policing you have when you don't have police... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think all cctv should be streamed on the internet so that everyone can see what is being filmed, not kept secret, that way the 'big brother' element evaporates. Great idea. Oh hang on though... ..you could spot me taking your missus out for lunch, or out at night when you're off island. I'm sure a few crims would find it handy too: when working out who goes to the bank when and which route they follow, as well as who does what route when planning the odd abduction etc. I'm sure the odd stalker or employer would also find it useful to monitor people's activities in their lunch hour too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 My neighbour was doing some overtime at the office and was filmed on CCTV walking home through the Villa Arcade. The police thought he might have been a witness to an attack a short while later in the area (in fact he saw nothing unusual). Anyway, he had his picture splashed all over the Courier in glorious technicolor. I hope he was in fact doing overtime as he told his family and I also hope he hadn't booked in work to midnight when the picture showed him at 11:45pm. Erosion of liberties? You decide. Well, I've decided. Any information you give to government (generally, I'm not picking on IOMG here) is liable to be abused, misused, mislaid, whatever. So all attempts by government to keep watch on the citizenry should be resisted. I wonder how many of those who say they are happy to be snooped on have read 1984 or Animal Farm. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I could understand there'd be reason to have CCTV coverage of the Promenade - or at least the trouble hotspots. That could make sense especially if there was also live monitoring during 'peak' trouble times and this was used as tactical tool for rapid response. If Henderson has specific proposals like that in mind it would be better to spell these out rather than just 'more CCTV' which I think one should rightly be very wary of. I thought Operation Centurion had sorted out the troubles on the prom. Didn't they go to America to get an award? Or was that last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideload Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 i had a friend who was assaulted outside the town hall a few years ago and despite there being CCTV covering that area ,the pictures were so piss poor my mate said he couldn't even identify himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immortalpuppet Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 My little brother got the shit kicked out of him by some come over builder dude, it was all caught on cctv. My brother got punched to the ground and knocked out, the bloke went to walk off and my brother staggered to his feet and then the bloke came back and battered him again. Dispite all this being captured and shown to the court it was thrown out as evidence for some crap legal reason. Thank fuck the deemster had already watched it, he said he was prepared to dismiss the cctv as evidence but he could not ignore the fact that he had seen what went on and it was an unprovoked attack. Now i imagine if the accused had more money for a better defence he could have stopped the evidence making it to the court room, if people can manage to do that then i fail to see the point of un reactive cctv. In my view CCTV should be used in live time to direct policemen/lynch mobs towards offenders or potential problems rather than just taping it for it to be thrown out on a technicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Apart from the questionable value in the fuzzy pictures in a prosecution, the real problem I have is that I wouldn't trust the likes of those who call for these measures to use them in a proper manner or to put in mechanisms to ensure others use them properly. It strikes me that CCTV is a symptom of a lack of confidence in their own authority, whether or not it may be deserved. Apply the analogy of a school; if a proper respect for authority is instilled in school, there is a confidence on both sides knowing where the boundaries are. Installing 'a spy' in the cloakrooms just undermines that confidence - if you have to do that, you have failed in creating the right authority culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 It strikes me that CCTV is a symptom of a lack of confidence in their own authority, whether or not it may be deserved. I drove past the new school in Ramsey the other day and noticed that they have CCTV overlooking the playgrounds. It creates an awful impression that the school has a problem with behaviour and needs extra measures to handle the situation. What more do you need than a teacher in the playground to keep order? Furthermore, it means the children become accustomed to being watched at an early age. Again, what for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Could it be to deter vandals when the school is closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Could it be to deter vandals when the school is closed? Or collect videos for a porn channel? [it is Ramsey, after all, and there's nothing else to do!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Could it be to deter vandals when the school is closed? Or collect videos for a porn channel? [it is Ramsey, after all, and there's nothing else to do!] are you fucking kittens in the playground after hours then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Which is the better deterrent to crime? More police activity on the streets particulaly at night and on foot with police dogs or a system to collect film footage for use as possible evidence after the crime is over and the victim has been robbed or assaulted? CCTV is the policing you have when you don't have police... Er, neither. How often to police on foot just happen to come across crime? That's the problem with the whole 'bobbies on the beat' mantra - the chances of a police officer coming across some criminal activity whilst wandering the street are pretty slim, even over here. To frame you question a different way, what's better: an anti-crime strategy based on fear, or one based on observation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I could understand there'd be reason to have CCTV coverage of the Promenade - or at least the trouble hotspots. That could make sense especially if there was also live monitoring during 'peak' trouble times and this was used as tactical tool for rapid response. If Henderson has specific proposals like that in mind it would be better to spell these out rather than just 'more CCTV' which I think one should rightly be very wary of. I thought Operation Centurion had sorted out the troubles on the prom. Didn't they go to America to get an award? Or was that last year? Project Centurion was a great initiative with great results in 33% reduction in crime on the Prom (and yes, it did get an award, that was in 2005). Rough guess is even with better transport which is what Centurion focussed on, the Promenade still accounts for 25% of all IoM's reported assaults, 30% of all recorded public order offences, and 12.5% of all criminal damage reports. Key times are between 6pm and 4am on Friday and Saturday nights - particularly weekend of month after payday. Earlier this month someone was assaulted in the area of the Castlemona Shops on Central Promenade. http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php...mp;hl=promenade CCTV I think would be proportionate in area which accounts for such a high proportion of all crime in IoM (probably now about 20%) especially assaults, criminal damage and public order offences. Live monitoring during these 'peak hours' makes sense and allow rapid response to trouble. Personally I think the nightclubs bars and shops open after 6pm ought to pay for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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