Buying Local

[Skeddan]

Here's a couple of examples from your earlier posts:

 

"It could well even produce at much lower cost than UK" (My emphasis.)

 

"Buy fertiliser at spot rates"

 

The first statement is frankly ridiculous.

 

 

Well, of course. IF Manx farmers had cheaper fertiliser, higher yields, lower labour costs, cheap fuel, a 104,468 acre farms, and a free ferry service, then yes they could undercut UK farmers.

 

The second one suggests that this is a trick that UK farmers haven't cottoned onto, which (if it's a sensible suggestion) seems unlikely. But is it a sensible suggestion? Spot rates are fine when there is a surplus of supply, but not much good when demand exceeds supply. Wise commodity buyers buy well ahead, they don't buy spot.

 

I am afraid that you are big on assertions, but few of them stand up.

Ok you buy from Qafco - like South Vietnamese do. World markets have taken huge changes recently - as might have noticed, and price of gas and oil is all over the place. How best to buy is something that a specialist would know best - not me. Buying in bulk from producer would almost certainly make sense however.

 

NZ farmers do this (though buy from Australia rather than Qatar), and maybe possibly some UK farmers do this. OK so knock the suggestion - UK doing it already, so this is reason why no point in IOM dong it - better stick with buying at high retail prices and paying £40 tonne extra for shipping it. Brilliant! That really stands up Sebrof.

 

(BTW I haven't studies how it works in UK - where it would be landed, cost of landing, how transported - road rail, distribution centres etc. - this land transport component can add enormously to cost. Transport is generally the single biggest cost of fertiliser. UK is a big place. Ship to Douglas and have within 15 miles of most farms - that could be very attractive).

[Skeddan]

gazza - I wouldn't even say these are ideas - they are to illustrate the kind of things that DAFF MNFU should be looking at instead of only thinking about subsidies. You can't come up with any solid ideas or anything like a proposal or plan unless really get to know the industry and learning and talking through with people like yourself.

 

If Andersons Report isn't good, then that's a worry - they ought to be. Anyway good to know that. Still it makes the whole report and the conclusions they draw pretty dodgy. Hope IoMG didn't pay a lot for that. You have to have real numbers and get layout etc. (Digitial mapping GIS, and so on). IoM is only little. It shouldn't be too difficult to do.

 

Joining farms together - I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. Look at the link I posted in reply to you earlier about farm in NZ (which has some info on Kiwi Cross too). I know these farmers. They built tunnel under main road (yes roads are a problem there too). This brought two farms together - made it efficient and each one's share of profit is higher than either could have had alone. They got over 'too many cooks' etc. to make it work. And it does. (despite a main highway dividing the farms).

[Sebrof]

Here's a couple of examples from your earlier posts:

 

"It could well even produce at much lower cost than UK" (My emphasis.)

 

"Buy fertiliser at spot rates"

 

The first statement is frankly ridiculous.

 

 

Well, of course. IF Manx farmers had cheaper fertiliser, higher yields, lower labour costs, cheap fuel, a 104,468 acre farms, and a free ferry service, then yes they could undercut UK farmers.

 

The second one suggests that this is a trick that UK farmers haven't cottoned onto, which (if it's a sensible suggestion) seems unlikely. But is it a sensible suggestion? Spot rates are fine when there is a surplus of supply, but not much good when demand exceeds supply. Wise commodity buyers buy well ahead, they don't buy spot.

 

I am afraid that you are big on assertions, but few of them stand up.

Ok you buy from Qafco - like South Vietnamese do. World markets have taken huge changes recently - as might have noticed, and price of gas and oil is all over the place. How best to buy is something that a specialist would know best - not me. Buying in bulk from producer would almost certainly make sense however.

 

NZ farmers do this (though buy from Australia rather than Qatar), and maybe possibly some UK farmers do this. OK so knock the suggestion - UK doing it already, so this is reason why no point in IOM dong it - better stick with buying at high retail prices and paying £40 tonne extra for shipping it. Brilliant! That really stands up Sebrof.

 

(BTW I haven't studies how it works in UK - where it would be landed, cost of landing, how transported - road rail, distribution centres etc. - this land transport component can add enormously to cost. Transport is generally the single biggest cost of fertiliser. UK is a big place. Ship to Douglas and have within 15 miles of most farms - that could be very attractive).

 

Skeddan, what would make sense (as various people have said) is for farmers to have some sort of common buying facility, such as a cooperative, so that they can buy (and ship) larger quantities, which should be much more cost-effective than buying individually. Couple that with proper branding and marketing, and you might get somewhere. But it is not at all likely that Manx producers will ever undercut UK ones.

 

Of course, getting farmers to agree is not always easy, in my experience.

 

S

[WTF]

Here's a couple of examples from your earlier posts:

 

"It could well even produce at much lower cost than UK" (My emphasis.)

 

"Buy fertiliser at spot rates"

 

The first statement is frankly ridiculous.

 

 

Well, of course. IF Manx farmers had cheaper fertiliser, higher yields, lower labour costs, cheap fuel, a 104,468 acre farms, and a free ferry service, then yes they could undercut UK farmers.

 

The second one suggests that this is a trick that UK farmers haven't cottoned onto, which (if it's a sensible suggestion) seems unlikely. But is it a sensible suggestion? Spot rates are fine when there is a surplus of supply, but not much good when demand exceeds supply. Wise commodity buyers buy well ahead, they don't buy spot.

 

I am afraid that you are big on assertions, but few of them stand up.

Ok you buy from Qafco - like South Vietnamese do. World markets have taken huge changes recently - as might have noticed, and price of gas and oil is all over the place. How best to buy is something that a specialist would know best - not me. Buying in bulk from producer would almost certainly make sense however.

 

NZ farmers do this (though buy from Australia rather than Qatar), and maybe possibly some UK farmers do this. OK so knock the suggestion - UK doing it already, so this is reason why no point in IOM dong it - better stick with buying at high retail prices and paying £40 tonne extra for shipping it. Brilliant! That really stands up Sebrof.

 

(BTW I haven't studies how it works in UK - where it would be landed, cost of landing, how transported - road rail, distribution centres etc. - this land transport component can add enormously to cost. Transport is generally the single biggest cost of fertiliser. UK is a big place. Ship to Douglas and have within 15 miles of most farms - that could be very attractive).

 

Skeddan, what would make sense (as various people have said) is for farmers to have some sort of common buying facility, such as a cooperative, so that they can buy (and ship) larger quantities, which should be much more cost-effective than buying individually. Couple that with proper branding and marketing, and you might get somewhere. But it is not at all likely that Manx producers will ever undercut UK ones.

 

Of course, getting farmers to agree is not always easy, in my experience.

 

S

 

surely that is what isle of man farmers do, but then stick a bit on for profit?? i doubt all farmers buy their stuff in england and arrange its shipment??

[Skeddan]

Skeddan, what would make sense (as various people have said) is for farmers to have some sort of common buying facility, such as a cooperative, so that they can buy (and ship) larger quantities, which should be much more cost-effective than buying individually. Couple that with proper branding and marketing, and you might get somewhere. But it is not at all likely that Manx producers will ever undercut UK ones.

 

Of course, getting farmers to agree is not always easy, in my experience.

Perhaps one shouldn't get too hung up about undercutting UK farmers in terms of exports to UK for commodities (though for example locally produced milk I think would be cheaper than imported milk from UK). There's all sorts of possible savings in various areas - e.g. reducing energy consumption (look at new infrastructure designed for efficiency from ground up - 'greenfields' fashion - e.g. ground source heat pumps and heat exchange reducing energy costs etc.) If Manx dairy farming had similar efficiencies as NZ, then no reason why it couldn't undercut).

 

But as I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't think it would make sense to export commodity milk and sell at narrow margins in UK. maybe fetching 23ppl in the UK. Better to produce value-added products - Manx cheese (but go for good quality at reasonable prices, not pickled onion flavoured cheese, or chips and gravy flavour). Distinctive, higher value, cheaper to ship in terms of this being lower cost to overall price.

 

Also it's really really important to stress looking overall and that the kinds of things I have suggested are just illustrations of some of the things that might be considered. There are alternatives as well.

 

Again, just as illustration, it may be much more attractive to consider developing deer farming in IoM. This might be more suited to size of farms, grazing conditions, reduce need for fertiliser, and could tap into UK market with prime high quailty venison - as well as antler velvet, leather, and other ancillary income sources. That might offer a better alternative for many dairy, sheep and beef farmers - especially if there was a strategy and scale to back this up. Manx venison might be developed to be a premium product - the best there is, and fetching high prices. This also has benefits for tourism.

 

What IMO should be the starting point is considering IoM agriculture and primary producers and treat as cluster and consider 'from farm to fork' - almost like one 104,000 acre farm and see what the best opportunities would be - especially given real dangers and challenges it is now facing.

 

Getting farmers to agree - that depends. I think that many might agree that Manx farming is in real jeopardy and even that it could perhaps collapse completely under present conditions and facing present challenges. If so, then maybe that would be a good start towards agreeing that something needs to be done - and if can see that higher prices and soon-to-end subsidy support and import restrictions can't save the day, then perhaps that will start to motivate towards building agreement for an overall strategy and programme which will work - and approaching it more in the manner I am suggesting.

 

Agro-economics ain't easy - farmers discussing what to do isn't going to be the way forward. As I said, this wont happen if it's done by management by committee - there has to be an initiative agreed with farmers - but that needs to be looked at in a 'top down' way - with consultation and involvement of farmers, but managing the development of a strategy and plan in the sound managed way that is needed if it is to get anywhere.

[Gagster]

now that the effects of the credit crunch are kicking in, do you really care abut buying local food with low food miles, or do you want what is cheapest for you and your family?

 

I try to go for quality, but price is important. We seem to be having some tough times, and more tough times ahead.

 

I have a good job, but it doesn't pay lots - and that's not going to change. I live a decent enough life, I'm happy, but I don't have lots of cash to flash around.

 

Unlike the farmers, I can't afford a gas-guzzling 4x4 - I use the bus most of the time (I would recommend it too, cheap and reliable - sure they get stuck in traffic at QB, but would me car!).

 

Anyway - credit crunch and all that - I have to make some savings. If wages don't change in line with the cost of everything else, you need to make some savings:-

 

I find Tesco is the best for value and choice, and they'll deliver - and most of the time I can get an online promotional code that I can use to waive the delivery charge. I hear what people are saying about Shoprite and being local and all that - but I've tried, many times but have got fed up of them not having the stuff I need.

 

When I'm across - I try and stock up in bulk items - ie. loo rolls, smellies, 4 cans of Coke for £1 (Co-op in Doulgas, 79p a can - they're havin' a laugh!!!!!)

 

CDs and DVDs - online IS cheapest, Amazon, Play etc. As I said, these are tough times - why by £12.99 when you can pay £8.

 

Clothes - I go once a year and go mad, at an Asda in Liverpool!

 

 

Buying local is great - but if it's cheaper elsewhere, then that's where I go I'm affraid.

[Freggyragh]

Clothes - I go once a year and go mad, at an Asda in Salford!

 

fixed.