pongo Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I don't see how the VAT loophole on CDs and stuff affects IOM retailers any differently from how it would affect UK retailers. Meanwhile - I'm totally in favour of buying local product (eg food) whenever it is possible. But when it comes to buying imports I see very little difference between keeping a shop in business or keeping the courier services and Post Office in business. And (with the obvious exception of stuff which is affected by this VAT loophole) - the IOM is getting the VAT back anyhow AFAIK. I'm prepared to be wrong though. I'm certainly interested in supporting a local economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAurelius Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 VAT isn't charged on low value private imports for one simple reason - it's not worth the trouble to collect it. There is no conspiracy, and I am surprised at you, Skeddan. Amazon will charge VAT on anything supplied from within the UK, and anything worth more than £18.00 from abroad, and so will all but the smallest foreign internet sites. S Well , Amazon Jersey & Play in Jersey certainly do not pay VAT when they purchase their games and consoles from the same distributors that we use.And funnily enough , whether you are one of the most popular websites for gaming around or a small independant retailer on the Isle Of Man , we all buy the same games and consoles from the same distributors.I speak to these people on a daily basis , so unless you work in the VAT office for Jersey you won't know if they do pay VAT or not but it is a fact that they don't pay VAT when they buy stock like we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Jersey is not UK though.Amazon stuff is VAT Free.They certainly do not pay VAT when they buy games and consoles.You state that the VAT does not make much difference , but with all due respect what knowledge or experience do you have to make such a statement.UK & IOM pay the same rates of VAT, Jersey & Guernsey do not. Macrus, once again, you're just wrong and it's pretty poor of you to make these claims from your position. Play and amazon do pay uk vat and into the common purse on games and consoles over 18 quid. For the foreseeable future there will be a demand for hard copies of CD's , DVD's & Games.I would be interested to know if anyone has downloaded a movie in standard or high definition from xbox live locally. Steams a poor example, its often more expensive than the shop. I buy games online all the time, they download quicker than a trip to town or 24 hours postage on amazon, if i've an option to buy online I'll always do that first. I only buy games on dvd because i've no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAurelius Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I don't see how the VAT loophole on CDs and stuff affects IOM retailers any differently from how it would affect UK retailers. Meanwhile - I'm totally in favour of buying local product (eg food) whenever it is possible. But when it comes to buying imports I see very little difference between keeping a shop in business or keeping the courier services and Post Office in business. And (with the obvious exception of stuff which is affected by this VAT loophole) - the IOM is getting the VAT back anyhow AFAIK. I'm prepared to be wrong though. I'm certainly interested in supporting a local economy. Your first point affecting UK retailers , it doesn't !! Small independant UK retailers certainly when it comes to video & pc games suffer the same problems on price as we do.In the past 6 months approximately 30% of the independant game shops in the UK have gone bust ( about 300 game shops ). As regards the IOM getting the VAT back , that is my point.When you use a local company the VAT that we pay ends up back here.If you use an internet company such as Amazon ( Jersey ) because they don't pay any VAT , nothing anyone spends with them will benefit the IOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 As regards the IOM getting the VAT back , that is my point.When you use a local company the VAT that we pay ends up back here.If you use an internet company such as Amazon ( Jersey ) because they don't pay any VAT , nothing anyone spends with them will benefit the IOM. Yes - I said with the exception of stuff which is affected by this VAT loophole. AFAIK - the IOM effectively gets the VAT back on stuff which we buy from the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 VAT isn't charged on low value private imports for one simple reason - it's not worth the trouble to collect it. There is no conspiracy, and I am surprised at you, Skeddan. Amazon will charge VAT on anything supplied from within the UK, and anything worth more than £18.00 from abroad, and so will all but the smallest foreign internet sites. S Well , Amazon Jersey & Play in Jersey certainly do not pay VAT when they purchase their games and consoles from the same distributors that we use.And funnily enough , whether you are one of the most popular websites for gaming around or a small independant retailer on the Isle Of Man , we all buy the same games and consoles from the same distributors.I speak to these people on a daily basis , so unless you work in the VAT office for Jersey you won't know if they do pay VAT or not but it is a fact that they don't pay VAT when they buy stock like we do. You clearly don't understand VAT. It doesn't matter to a business whether they pay VAT on what they buy, because they reclaim ALL the VAT they have to pay. It's whether or not they charge VAT when they sell the product that counts, and I can assure you that by law any business with a turnover greater than approx £60k per annum MUST charge VAT on products sold in or into the UK (and IOM). In fact, the VAT is payable on imports even if the supplier's turnover is 2p. That applies to foreign companies just as much as local ones, and you can bet that all foreign companies of any significance comply with the law. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 You clearly don't understand VAT. It doesn't matter to a business whether they pay VAT on what they buy, because they reclaim ALL the VAT they have to pay. It's whether or not they charge VAT when they sell the product that counts, and I can assure you that by law any business with a turnover greater than approx £60k per annum MUST charge VAT on products sold in or into the UK (and IOM). In fact, the VAT is payable on imports even if the supplier's turnover is 2p. Like pogo said, goods under 18 quid are the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAurelius Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Marcus, once again, you're just wrong and it's pretty poor of you to make these claims from your position. Play and amazon do pay uk vat and into the common purse on games and consoles over 18 quid I am sorry , but you know this how ? Perhaps you would like to ask a member of the credit control team at Centresoft who are sole UK distributors for Sony Playstation 3 Hardware and other publishers like EA , THQ , Sony etc.. Steams a poor example, its often more expensive than the shop. I buy games online all the time, they download quicker than a trip to town or 24 hours postage on amazon, if i've an option to buy online I'll always do that first. I only buy games on dvd because i've no choice. Last time I checked Orange Box was around $30 on Steam Amazon Play I have just checked Steam and they have the Orange Box for $40 so that works out cheaper than either Play or Amazon. Having just checked the hard copy of Orange Box I have the complete installation is 20Gb , now I don't know the last time you downloaded 20Gb here , but even at 8mb it will take a lot longer than a few hours to download that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Like pogo said, goods under 18 quid are the exception. Hmm, that's interesting. What would happen if you ordered multiples of an item that were under £18 in value? Technically, they should be vatable but I bet there's a cunning way around that one too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 You clearly don't understand VAT. It doesn't matter to a business whether they pay VAT on what they buy, because they reclaim ALL the VAT they have to pay. It's whether or not they charge VAT when they sell the product that counts, and I can assure you that by law any business with a turnover greater than approx £60k per annum MUST charge VAT on products sold in or into the UK (and IOM). In fact, the VAT is payable on imports even if the supplier's turnover is 2p. Like pogo said, goods under 18 quid are the exception. Read my post again, which quotes my earlier post in which I said that. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Like pogo said, goods under 18 quid are the exception. Hmm, that's interesting. What would happen if you ordered multiples of an item that were under £18 in value? Technically, they should be vatable but I bet there's a cunning way around that one too... 7dayshop in Guernsey sends separate parcels, each of which is just under £18.00. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAurelius Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Forbes , I am more than willing to change my opinion on this. But if the likes of Amazon , Play , Tesco still operate out of the Channel Islands , why would they do this if the Non VAT incentive was not there. Plus if they do pay VAT , does it definitely end up in the UK ? As far as I am aware , through the common purse agreement , most of the VAT that we pay ends up back here via the UK ? All I know is that the VAT man gets us when we buy our stock and when we sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I am sorry , how you know this how ? Perhaps you would like to ask a member of the credit control team at Centresoft who are sole UK distributors for Sony Playstation 3 Hardware and other publishers like EA , THQ , Sony etc.. I know because I buy stuff online and I know if I've been charged VAT or not. The £18 thing is a very hotly debated law, eg: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/24/hmv_kiosk_vat_sales/ How would a wholesaler know anything about vat charges by a retailer? Last time I checked Orange Box was around $30 on Steam Amazon Play I have just checked Steam and they have the Orange Box for $40 so that works out cheaper than either Play or Amazon. Having just checked the hard copy of Orange Box I have the complete installation is 20Gb , now I don't know the last time you downloaded 20Gb here , but even at 8mb it will take a lot longer than a few hours to download that. Orange box is $47, £29.50, it's 23 on amazon, so cheaper. Steam doesn't show you that you need to pay vat until you're logged in, so you're not quoting the correct price. Fallout 3, £36.90 on steam £27 on amazon. As to the download speed, that's a pretty extreme example and it's more than one game. A dvd iso takes about 4 hours to download on my connection. Certainly quicker than postage, and fast enough for me to want all games to be delivered this way. Distributing software on disk is dead, its just that games haven't realised it fully yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Like pogo said, goods under 18 quid are the exception. Hmm, that's interesting. What would happen if you ordered multiples of an item that were under £18 in value? Technically, they should be vatable but I bet there's a cunning way around that one too... They just send em in separate packages. It's an import rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Or a VAT dodging rule, take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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