Declan Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Sorry, Slim I think I read your previous post as being laced in irony, but in retrospect I think it was made with a charming naivety I am surprised to find in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 who reads the letters page of the local papers? The moral is quite clear: Don't read the letters page of the Local Paper . . . . . READ MANXFORUMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The conference will now take place in January, delayed mainly as a result of a lack of help in organising it. It is not yet an annual conference as this will be the first. It is hoped that it will become an annual event. To me that really shows how amauterish this party remains when it takes over 2 years to sort out a party conference and then a member of the "National Executive" states "it is hoped that it will become an annual event". I would advise that Mr Dobson reads part 6.1 of the party constitution published on the liberal vannin website which states "The Party shall hold both a Business Meeting and an Annual Conference annually" FFS this is a party populated by individuals who want our/my vote and support and then show that they obvioulsy have little understanding of even the parties constitution and also that they do not have the required time or numbers to be able to resolve matters, organise a conference. Well if you the LV's cannot organise and get themselves sorted how the hell do they expect to have time to resolve my issues as a constituent! My opinion is that the LV's should take a long hard look at themselves and either get in all sorted within a matter of weeks, or cease to pretend to be a party and go away get it all sorted before come back to the public. Presently it appears those at the "top" like all the fame and glamour without ensuring there is any substance organisation to what. My view that should have all been sorted prior to anyone standing for election under the LV banner and that the LV party has put back party politics in the Island for a good few years asafter this shambles their is no way I am going to be voting for any political party until I have seen it action with some credibility over a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The issue seems to me to be that the LVP stood on a platform of reforming the democratic structures of the Island to make them more democratic, yet haven't got a party structure that is democratic. Without going into rights and wrongs of the LV situation, be careful not to slip into fallacy over this. As illustration, French Resistance were not a democratic organisation - sometimes concerted disciplined organisation is required to achieve outcomes. Had LV had highly able leadership, had the nature of LV been clear to those joining, and if LV had been disciplined and effective in achieving it's stated aims, then a non-democratic party structure wouldn't necessarily be an issue. If - as it seems may be the case - LV sold itself in a misleading way to attract support and membership, then arguably there is no obligation to LV by those who joined up on basis of such false pretences - even if they had received campaign funds etc. Moreover those who voted for them would (presumably) be doing so also under the supposition that LV structure is democratic - that those they vote for are not bound to autocratic directives or the like. From point of view of responsibility to electorate, then remaining in a party and bound by rules which were not as LV sold itself would not be right. However any of LV's stated aims, principles and objectives used by elected candidates as part of their manifesto should be adhered to as far as possible. Quite possibly a lot of problems may be down to PK and a few others having difficulty in 'cutting the umbilical cord'. I'd also think many might have voted for LV candidates believing that an organised well-managed cohesive group could achieve the objectives better than disparate loose independent candidates. In that respect they have been let down badly - both by those remaining and those who have left. Is it too late to salvage LV? Perhaps 'New Liberal Vannin'? What changes in structures organisation etc. would be needed to bring LV together and make it viable? - or is it Humpty Dumpty. You'd hope that people could sort out proper governance structures, communications and procedures and put office politics behind them - get the squabbling over deckchairs sorted out, and get on with the real job in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am, and always have been, happy to meet and chat with both members of Liberal Vannin and members of the public Kind regards, Nigel Dobson. That's good then, there are still two members left. The future is bright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am, and always have been, happy to meet and chat with both members of Liberal Vannin and members of the public Kind regards, Nigel Dobson. That's good then, there are still two members left. The future is bright Reminscent of the Margaret Thatcher Fan Club. "When shall we three meet again?" S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am happy to confirm that Steve Babb paid for his own campaign. Isle of Man newspapers edited my letter which had read " Though they appear to criticize the executive, in more than one case, they were happy to have their campaign and manifesto funded by the Party..." This statement is true. The rest of my letter I stand by. Nigel Dobson Local papers editing letters for publication is well out of order. Is this a common practice? Have you taken it up with them? I think thats a fair point. I have never, ever, had a letter to the Editor edited in any newspaper. In fact I thought that the unwritten rule is that "letters to the editor" are never edited. Ever. Otherwise they would not be letters to the editor but extracts of letters to the Editor. Maybe the Editor of the newspaper would care to comment here - everyone else has! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokerman Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am, and always have been, happy to meet and chat with both members of Liberal Vannin and members of the public Kind regards, Nigel Dobson. That's good then, there are still two members left. The future is bright The future is Orange. That is good then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am happy to confirm that Steve Babb paid for his own campaign. Isle of Man newspapers edited my letter which had read " Though they appear to criticize the executive, in more than one case, they were happy to have their campaign and manifesto funded by the Party..." This statement is true. The rest of my letter I stand by. Nigel Dobson Local papers editing letters for publication is well out of order. Is this a common practice? Have you taken it up with them? I think thats a fair point. I have never, ever, had a letter to the Editor edited in any newspaper. In fact I thought that the unwritten rule is that "letters to the editor" are never edited. Ever. Otherwise they would not be letters to the editor but extracts of letters to the Editor. Something smelly methinks ...... Maybe the Editor of the newspaper would care to comment here - everyone else has! Surely the paper has to take out the libellous stuff? Or they're in the smelly stuff themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The future is Orange. The future is full of shit if you're anything to go by! That's a bit harsh, at least he is here under his own name 'oldmanxfella'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtey Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Surely the paper has to take out the libellous stuff? Or they're in the smelly stuff themselves! Newspapers enjoy qualified privilege which permits them some degree of defence against libel prosecution where they report or publish a letter from a third party which, by publishing, is deemed to be in the public interest. Those making accusations however, if defamatory either by naming someone directly or by inference, have committed libel. Of course, if they can prove a newspaper has edited their comments then that may be a defence, but one they would need to prove and seek to rectify. Similarly, if by making those accusations it is proven to be untrue, then the enwspaper may view that as defamatory against them. Obviously I don't want to comment on this particular case as that would be inappropriate, particularly as I am currently receiving legal advice regards it. Hope that helps answer your question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Nigel, thank your atleast confirming the issue with payment by LV and also the issue of Executive Election. I see that this thread has done none off us many favours, esp myself. But sometimes when something quite bluntly pisses you off, you just have to get it out your system. Skrappy, Personally I will be could not give a flying **** what you think, and to be blunt you have no idea who I am or what I do as a Councillor. Declan, what you said was your opinion, my showing the email was wrong and yep two wrongs do not make a right, but maybe its just vanity but I had to prove I was right... Steve, good luck John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokerman Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Surely the paper has to take out the libellous stuff? Or they're in the smelly stuff themselves! Those making accusations however, if defamatory either by naming someone directly or by inference, have committed libel. Of course, if they can prove a newspaper has edited their comments then that may be a defence, .... Obviously I don't want to comment on this particular case as that would be inappropriate, particularly as I am currently receiving legal advice regards it. Hope that helps answer your question though. I support Peter and Liberal Vannin in a seat that is, to say the least, difficult to win. Mr Speaker is held in high regard. No big salary for me then. I support them because I believe that we need change and honesty as has been seen by recent events. I support Peter in particular because he has never been caught in a public lie. The current Steam Packet report. Vote, 23 - 1 against the user agreement. The one was Peter. The Point? I will never deliberatly tell a public lie. If I am wrong, I will try to admit it, and the paper edited my letter. Those making accusations however, if defamatory either by naming someone directly or by inference have commited libel. And Steve, I still haven't been offered the second Onchan nomination. Nigel Dobson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Surely the paper has to take out the libellous stuff? Or they're in the smelly stuff themselves! Newspapers enjoy qualified privilege which permits them some degree of defence against libel prosecution where they report or publish a letter from a third party which, by publishing, is deemed to be in the public interest. Those making accusations however, if defamatory either by naming someone directly or by inference, have committed libel. Of course, if they can prove a newspaper has edited their comments then that may be a defence, but one they would need to prove and seek to rectify. Similarly, if by making those accusations it is proven to be untrue, then the enwspaper may view that as defamatory against them. Obviously I don't want to comment on this particular case as that would be inappropriate, particularly as I am currently receiving legal advice regards it. Hope that helps answer your question though. That argument doesn't wash, otherwise manx forums would have been in less doo doo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 At the end of the day if you haven't been damaged or can't show you have been damaged then there is little point in shouting "legal advice" "libel" "defamation" etc. other than to demonstrate one's bumptiousness. (Although of course I am prepared to be corrected by a lawyer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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