Albert Tatlock Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 As per David Christians sensible comments, These guys work hard and at least they have had the conviction to do what they thought right.. a lot more than can be said to someone who's only conviction is to criticise on a forum, and even this is done hidden behind a alter ego.. What kind of logic is that: 'you can't critisise because you haven't stood'? People don't often stand for an equal number of reasons as those that do stand. It's a shame we can't get higher calibre people, but that's the way it is. Everyone has a right to criticise, but no one has a right to stand to represent the public and expect not be criticised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Paladin Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Albert, You are correct, but all i am trying to say is how can %age, criticise some thing like, how many free buffets they have been too.. i mean lets be realistic, he is NOT a local Authority member, not Douglas any way, as he would realise that the said Councillors put in a lot of work, and the functions are always fro a reason, not just a "hey lets have some buffett food on the rate payers" I feel that it is far easier to pass comment from the outside looking in..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 My criticism isn't wholesale against the these councillors. It has all stemmed from their leaving (or were they ever really in?) the Liberal Vannin Party. The Liberal Vannin Party was well represented on Douglas Council and they were all 'newbies'. The self styled 'Leader of Douglas Council' soon got them all on side though by welcoming them with, er, a free buffet. Like little puppy dogs, it is not too difficult to get them 'on side'. Amazing what a bit of pampering at the expense of the Douglas ratepayer can do eh? David Christian and the gang . . . 1 (or rather 4) Liberal Vannin Party . . . . . . . . . .0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 But I think that PK will live on even without LV as like I said the IOM needs him more than an other MHK, I just think the Party needs to sort it self out, Its a shame that the members that left felt they could do no more from within. I think that LV has been shown to be just a vanity project for PK and nothing else. I also think he's starting to believe his own publicity about being a viable opposition party and that trying to keep control of LV through his unelected but trusty acolytes will be his downfall. Very few of his appointments have stayed the distance. Some of the early leavers seem to have had their own agenda (ie, creeping up arses for departmental appointments) but the last lot don't appear to have the same motivation - a bunch of town councillors and commissioners who are not career politicians. They don't really have anything to gain - other than 30 quid a meeting and some free nosh - so you might rightly assume that they are genuinely aggrieved at the way things are being run. Unlike %age I can't see a widespread revolt being induced by free volovants. Although they might have left to form a nice independent office cleaning co-operative which I believe is quite lucrative in that neck of the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Paladin Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Old Manx Fella, you hit the nail on the haed there, PK has surrounded those people that he feels safe with, that will not question or push his ideas. The Councillors and commisioners left because of this "click" but i suppose yep they could have stayed and maybe worked for another 3 years to try and shift them.. but hey ho ..it was not to be. I measn look at the indi article , wow harsh words from Kate Beescroft, wow the LV are glad they have left and guess wht they where going to be kicked out any way... so after the horse has bolted its soooo very easy to say you wheer gonna shut the door any way..hahahaha I mean all it seems to be is a spitting words contest now from LV exec.. then again it does kind off make me realise why the guys and gals left . I would say its far from David Christians Council, yep he is their leader, meaning what, tahts it its just a title and he gets to say a few things in the press from time to time, to be fair David works hard and as for the free buffett.. i hear he was trying to cancel the fireworks to safe money, so maybe he is not quite the ogre made out to be ! They Council is a vibrant place i hear at the moment, ideas and opposition to excisting ways has never been higher. There are old heads with 6 new heads , the spread off ages is great.. we even have 2 male 30 somethings on council, just look at the website, Carol M is still young as is Sara Hackman.. IMO i agree with David LV is all and great in HoK for opposition, but at Local Authority level.. nahh its deffo not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 So PK will be resigning as leader then before the next general election? Surely he cannot expect that he can lead a party into a general election and ask for the electorates votes and support on the basis that if the party err actually does get a majority of seats he will resign and the party will vote for a new leader (subjecting to it deciding by then that its members are worthy of having a bit of democracy, democracy). Isn't that what the Governing party did after the last election! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Albert, You are correct, but all i am trying to say is how can %age, criticise some thing like, how many free buffets they have been too.. i mean lets be realistic, he is NOT a local Authority member, not Douglas any way, as he would realise that the said Councillors put in a lot of work, and the functions are always fro a reason, not just a "hey lets have some buffett food on the rate payers" I feel that it is far easier to pass comment from the outside looking in..... It's very easy when I pay huge rates and never see any councillor, not even at election time. They must be so busy they can't find time for constituents. Or when I see a vast chunk of my rates paying for a clubhouse at Pulrose when there are plenty of golf courses around the Island. (sorry strayed off topic there). Douglas Council makes it very easy for me to pass comment, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 It's very easy when I pay huge rates and never see any councillor, not even at election time. They must be so busy they can't find time for constituents. Or when I see a vast chunk of my rates paying for a clubhouse at Pulrose when there are plenty of golf courses around the Island. (sorry strayed off topic there). Douglas Council makes it very easy for me to pass comment, yes. The problem on the island is that all too many councillors these days tend to be pretty useless, so in the meantime MHKs get sucked into doing the work that should ordinarily be handled by councillors (dog poo, my fence is broken, my neighbours cat keeps crapping in my garden etc.). It's like many MHKs have been effectively demoted to fill the void. Politics has such a bad name and such shoddy standards these days, little wonder we are getting all the wrong types going into it. It used to be that the MHKs of tomorrow cut their teeth doing council work, and then moved on to greater things armed with that experience. I was hoping one impact of LV might have been to start to change things by forcing others to up their game and get more organised too. But alas, if LV is just a vehicle for PK then the end of LV is inevitable. PK might be popular in Onchan, but IMO that is only because he spends too much time doing council type work. God help us all if he became CM, and god help us all even more if what's left of LV, and even worse still his constituents, believe he would make a good CM. It's two years since the last election, and it would be interesting to assess where our MHKs have got to with their 'manifestos'. You remember? All those promises and claims for action made - most of which it seems have turned to dust and blown away. In the face of a changing world order, cries for transparency and regulation, economic doom and gloom, only Alan Bell seems to be cutting the mustard IMO. Hardly anyone else is fighting our corner, because most MHKs are steeped in council level matters, can't even spell 'finance sector' let alone understand it, think an economic is some sort of car, and IQ is something you do at Marks and Spencer. With politicians of such calibre, we are truly, truly, heading for the mire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Paladin Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Albert I agree... Leave Councillors to do what they are supposed, Douglas is lucky in that they have had an influx off fresh younger (in most cases..lol) blood There was 6 new Councillors, 5 aged under 45 !!!! 1 aged 80 odd i think, but this is a great mix and yes the Council is more vibrant and prepared to do what they should be doing. The Problem with some MHKs (esp Onchan) is that they are ex Commisioners and still get involved, i suppose its to keep the constituents happy and show they are fighting their cornor ect.. The press probably is not that interested in what say Sara Hackman is up too or Richard Kissack, but as soon as David Q wants an interview about local authority issues he has it. In regards to the dog poo, i know this is a whole tin can off worms that could be opened and there is probably other forums on this issue already, but this really is a case of 1 MHK (Brenda Cannell ) getting involved in a local Authority issue, trying to convince her public that she knew nothing about these new bye laws when ho and behold she was sent them twice for consideration.. she seems to have missed them.. There we have again had the time off our MHKs wasted as Albert pointed out !! SarahC In know that especially the new Councillors are freely available, maybe this is because they are new !! but if you email them they will reply I am sure and if they dont reply on your issue's then shame them on here !! But I agree with you on rate payers money being wasted, The Horse trams are another tin off worms that could be opened, The lord street Car Park another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPs Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 At the end of the day the fact remains that a number of people stood for the Keys and local authority elections under a Liberal Vannin Party manifesto. Some were elected. Those that were elected and have decided to resign from the party must do the honourable thing and go back to the people with a explanation and subject themselves to re-election. If they have not the decency to do that, whatever their reasons for resigning from the party, it proves they are without decency or honour. As for Councillor David Christian (rent a mouth) the more I hear coming from his lips is the more I want to phuke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Paladin Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 BPS , your comments abour David Christian are a little unfair, I mean do you know him personally, the fact he does a lot off good work for Douglas... The members that left LV did so because they where subjected to a non - democratic system, a system that changed its constitution a system that declared democracy, but on delving deeper did not practice what they preached.. so its very easy to criticise these peopel for leaving with asking yor self why they left, they are not as was earlier said career politicians, just normal people who at least had the decency to stand, in the case off all but 1 douglas councillor there was no election, and it was not even widly known that they where LV, the only "publicity" arose after they where elected. there was no financial assistance , no schooling on what and when to say things the LV way. I mean from what PK has said, they where goping to be asked to leave any way, due to their questioning of Party Policies etc, so who you have called for a re-election at the cost off thousands to the rate payer, if that had been the case...? You for one should never question anothers decency or honour with out even knowing these people.. Do you even know Richard, Sara, John, Carol, Steve or Mike..? If you did I am suprised you would have made such a comment. If you yourself got a job and that job was not what was promised... do you not think you would look else where..? what damage has this done to the Local authority these people sit on...? NONE .. Holy Paladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPs Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I do know Councillor Christian and knew him long before he was elected to the Council. He loves the sound of his voice and lives on publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Albert I agree... Leave Councillors to do what they are supposed, I'm not sure that was what Albert was saying. He was saying that the councillors are so bad that the MHK's are drawn into their area, because the public know them. If I had a matter I needed raising at political level - I'd go to my MHKs (well two of them) - I know who they are, they were elected after a vigorously contested campaign. My commissioners are eight faceless people who got elected on a nod and a wink, who despite my town falling apart in the last few years, only action has been to stick up posters of dogshit. In regards to the dog poo, i know this is a whole tin can off worms that could be opened and there is probably other forums on this issue already, but this really is a case of 1 MHK (Brenda Cannell ) getting involved in a local Authority issue, trying to convince her public that she knew nothing about these new bye laws I know there has been criticism of this issue being raised in Tynwald, but I think that it was correct that it was. I felt it wasn't about dog shit when you got down to it, but about the way local authorities conduct themselves. The way they work is to create by-laws here there and everywhere that impact not only on their residents but anyone visiting their town. And step by step our lives become more complicated and bureaucratic, just to suit their whims. Most of them are unelected, or if they are, they've been elected by 100 people. Tynwald is at summit of our political system and it is right that it scruitinises the actions of these petty fiefdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Paladin Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 the seagull was a Douglas partnership crap project so yerr i agree.. Pulrose golf club - 1 mill is a hell off a lot off cash i agree.. but as a community centre we will wait and see how its used. As for the Councillors being bad, albert and declan, its so very easy to judge from outside, but if its that bad stand yaself !!!!!!!!! so very easy to judge when ya can't be arsed to do it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 OK , I live in spring valley and want to hire it for a christening for little david renaldo chavster. Where do I apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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