Minister Wary Of Obama

[oldmanxfella]

If you think the PR company is doing the best job, you need your bumps felt. There's more evidence it's not, end of.

 

Albert everyone has an opinion you've got to use the value test at the end of the day. Are you saying that we've possibly not had over £250,000 plus per annum of input so far?

 

http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/847133/L...business-brief/

[Skeddan]

IMO IoM's PR campaign is misdirected. The story that most need to get across is not about being a well regulated etc. That's clearly not working. Here's why I think why.

 

This from Alan Bell:

 

"He classes them all as tax-havens (and) doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between well run, well regulated cooperative states, and those rogue states he sees are draining tax dollars out of the United States.

 

That sounds like the nub of the problem. If so, then how to deal with this?

 

The challenge is this: How do you get an American Democratic President to stop thinking of you as a 'rogue state'?

 

It's not financial regulation mumbo jumbo, OECD reports etc. If it were that simple there wouldn't be the problem.

 

IMO the most effective way to tackle this is to project being a democracy. That alone would shift perceptions by setting IoM apart from 'rogue states' (how many 'rogue states' do you think of as democracies?). It has become the American litmus test of legitimacy. Once have established that, then the rest is about cooperation, working together and development... Who would rashly go on the offensive against a small peaceful democracy? Even a not-so-great emerging democracy committed to becoming a fully fledged democracy gets plenty of breaks.

 

Now consider IoM's 'image' in that respect and how that effects everything else. Look at Channel Four News recently which seemed to epitomise this - "what is this peculiar entity that is the Isle of Man?" It then all went downhill from there. People 'out there' don't think of the Isle of Man as a democratic country - but a strange ambiguous anomaly - not a nation state but a 'territory' with odd status and renown for being a tax haven. Murky, obscure, fishy. Not a democratic nation state, but some misfit which doesn't really belong in the international community. (any wonder then there is an impression of being a rogue state?).

 

You'all might know about how wonderfully democratic IoM is (...) but it ain't front of mind to outsiders.

 

Successfully project being a democracy - put that 'front of mind' when thinking about IoM. Do that, then any over-hasty antagonism or desire to be seen to be acting against rogue states is put on pause. Rather than 'shoot first ask questions later', questions get asked: "Isn't it a tax haven?" "Don't they do money laundering?" Then you can get the message across to a receptive audience who want to believe in you, because they believe in 'democracy'.

 

As far as I see most US foreign policy is driven by emotive responses - or at least it is a big factor. (even down to 'good and evil', with Evil Empire, Axis of Evil, Saddam being evil etc.). Get inside the American psyche and see IoM in those terms.

 

Democracy good, Rogue States evil - these are mutually exclusive

[triskelion]

Bullshit. America's litmus test is compliance, not democracy.

 

No one outside the Island knows (or cares) about its political system.

[manshimajin]

The challenge is this: How do you get an American Democratic President to stop thinking of you as a 'rogue state'?

 

It's not financial regulation mumbo jumbo, OECD reports etc. If it were that simple there wouldn't be the problem.

 

IMO the most effective way to tackle this is to project being a democracy. That alone would shift perceptions by setting IoM apart from 'rogue states' (how many 'rogue states' do you think of as democracies?).

I don't think saying that "we are a democratic offshore tax haven" will cut much ice. The 'tax haven' wording on the label seems to be pretty well stuck to us at the moment and for those who live thousands of miles away (or in the UK) that equals 'something to hide' .

 

So if Obama poses a real threat to our financial services industry (greater than world recession and lack of confidence in our banking system?) we need to unstick the label from the jar - which is why I think the message needs to get out that we are not some Monagasque enterprise but a location whose regulation and cooperation is generally very well received.

 

Can anyone elaborate on what Obama plans to do to us?

[Skeddan]

Bullshit. America's litmus test is compliance, not democracy.

 

No one outside the Island knows (or cares) about its political system.

Washington's litmus test is compliance. Don't confuse the two.

 

'No one' - yet more know-it-all hyperbole. Bullshit.

 

What makes you think anyone in the Island knows about its political system? No one seems to understand about the constitutional relationship with the UK. Not even the former clerk of Tynwald. Even a Deemster said IoM was a member of the Commonwealth.

 

If no one in Washington knows IoM is a democracy, then that is an image problem which effects perception of it as an offshore tax haven. Look at the Caymans.

 

It doesn't matter how much regulations and laws you have if it is all just paper. Corruption, perception of corruption, transparency, democratic accountability. These also count and are part of the mix. If officials are corrupt, and it's a sham, then compliance to standards of international responsibility (with US generally calling shots) doesn't happen. Rogue states, money laundering, tax evasion, dirty deals etc.

 

The 'tax haven' wording on the label seems to be pretty well stuck to us at the moment

Why is it so difficult to peel off? Alan Bell says Obama seems unable to differentiate between IoM and a rogue state draining tax dollars out of the USA. Seems like they haven't been able to peel off that label. Why? What would make the difference? What's the blockage that has to be cleared before that can happen?

 

If Obama cannot differentiate between IoM and rogue state, doesn't that suggest that to him IoM appears to be a tin-pot psuedo democracy run by a few fats cats and their cronies - or something along those lines. In other words like the Caymans' or perhaps like Jersey - only with financial abuse hidden under the carpet.

 

If that's his perception, no wonder it is hard to get him differentiate IoM from a 'dirty money' rogue territory. How do you expect to make him see otherwise without addressing that perception?

[Skeddan]

I don't think saying that "we are a democratic offshore tax haven" will cut much ice.

No, but saying "we are a democratic country with a well regulated financial services sector" starts to get there.

 

I don't think saying "we have a well regulated finance sector" will cut much ice if there is a perception that the place is a tin-pot quasi democracy where corruption runs rife.

[Freggyragh]

Personally I am wary of McCain and especially Palin. You thought George W Bush was dangerous with his invention of state funded, privately owned perma-war, his state funded, privately owned paranoid security industry, and his state funded privately owned finance system - if McCain/Palin wins it I reckon this process will go hyper. You would have to be one hell of a bigot not to hope Obama gets in. We are at a huge disadvantage in the international arena because of our bizarre constitutional status, but that is workable - war without end and enslavement by state backed multinational no-risk capitalism is not.

[pongo]

well said Freggyragh

[Skeddan]

We are at a huge disadvantage in the international arena because of our bizarre constitutional status, but that is workable.

If this is a huge disadvantage why is nothing done about it? Is it being 'workable' reason enough? (I'm sure being illiterate or a drug addict is also a huge disadvantage, but 'workable'). This sounds slightly like 'we can put up with our dependency for now'. I don't see IoM changing what the US does globally, so should that mean labouring under a huge disadvantage rather than attempting to do something about it?

 

And yes, it is a huge disadvantage in the international arena; IoM isn't in the arena.

[Moghrey Mie]

My point is that paying PR proffessionals is a good step when you consider the alternatives! Alan Bell / Tony Brown on primetime?

The common ground is that there is a need to get the correct story out there to the people who matter - and we have a good story supported by the OECD.

 

Still like the idea of talking with the Irish Government who will be lobbying in the US to try and preserve the advantages of their own low corporate tax situation for US businesses. Much better allies on this, I suspect, than the UK Government.

 

Ultimately a good lobbyist who is financially literate is needed. Can't afford politicians with limited financial understanding going off half-cocked (or trying to criticise the US President).

 

 

There are several budgets for PR including Freedom to Flourish. Among other things doesn't the IOM government retain a company in London (Case and White or is it White and Case?) to watch out for the island's image?

[Twitch]

My point is that paying PR proffessionals is a good step when you consider the alternatives! Alan Bell / Tony Brown on primetime?

The common ground is that there is a need to get the correct story out there to the people who matter - and we have a good story supported by the OECD.

 

Still like the idea of talking with the Irish Government who will be lobbying in the US to try and preserve the advantages of their own low corporate tax situation for US businesses. Much better allies on this, I suspect, than the UK Government.

 

Ultimately a good lobbyist who is financially literate is needed. Can't afford politicians with limited financial understanding going off half-cocked (or trying to criticise the US President).

 

 

There are several budgets for PR including Freedom to Flourish. Among other things doesn't the IOM government retain a company in London (Case and White or is it White and Case?) to watch out for the island's image?

 

http://gov.im/lib/news/cso/isleofmangovernm3.xml

[Moghrey Mie]

My point is that paying PR proffessionals is a good step when you consider the alternatives! Alan Bell / Tony Brown on primetime?

The common ground is that there is a need to get the correct story out there to the people who matter - and we have a good story supported by the OECD.

 

Still like the idea of talking with the Irish Government who will be lobbying in the US to try and preserve the advantages of their own low corporate tax situation for US businesses. Much better allies on this, I suspect, than the UK Government.

 

Ultimately a good lobbyist who is financially literate is needed. Can't afford politicians with limited financial understanding going off half-cocked (or trying to criticise the US President).

 

 

There are several budgets for PR including Freedom to Flourish. Among other things doesn't the IOM government retain a company in London (Case and White or is it White and Case?) to watch out for the island's image?

 

http://gov.im/lib/news/cso/isleofmangovernm3.xml

[Moghrey Mie]

My point is that paying PR proffessionals is a good step when you consider the alternatives! Alan Bell / Tony Brown on primetime?

The common ground is that there is a need to get the correct story out there to the people who matter - and we have a good story supported by the OECD.

 

Still like the idea of talking with the Irish Government who will be lobbying in the US to try and preserve the advantages of their own low corporate tax situation for US businesses. Much better allies on this, I suspect, than the UK Government.

 

Ultimately a good lobbyist who is financially literate is needed. Can't afford politicians with limited financial understanding going off half-cocked (or trying to criticise the US President).

 

 

There are several budgets for PR including Freedom to Flourish. Among other things doesn't the IOM government retain a company in London (Case and White or is it White and Case?) to watch out for the island's image?

 

http://gov.im/lib/news/cso/isleofmangovernm3.xml

 

 

Wow. How much is that costing?

[oldmanxfella]

We are at a huge disadvantage in the international arena because of our bizarre constitutional status, but that is workable - war without end and enslavement by state backed multinational no-risk capitalism is not.

 

It is actually surprising how thick the average Republican is. They interviewed one guy on TV this evening who was furious Obama got in because 'America is headed for socialism' - I can't believe how they can hold the free market economy up as being preferrable to socialism when the whole of corporate America has just been bailed out by the taxpayer. They don't see that as the free market failing, or capitalism being bailed out by money from the poor. They hate socialism but are happy to take money off minimum wage earners to cut back healthcare and social security and then use it to bail out Wall Street billionaires.

 

I agree with you even if its bad for us the world needs Obama to save us from these inbred, gunslinging, myopic hicks.

[manshimajin]

Oldmanxfella - you're ungrateful calling them 'thick'. Don't you remember the good ol' US of A saved mankind from the aliens in 'Independence Day'? Where's your gratitude?

President Thomas Whitmore: Good morning. In less than an hour, aircraft from here will join others from around the world. And you will be launching the largest aerial battle in the history of mankind. "Mankind." That word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it's fate that today is the Fourth of July, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom... Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution... but from annihilation. We are fighting for our right to live. To exist. And should we win the day, the Fourth of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day the world declared in one voice: "We will not go quietly into the night!" We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day!

[crowd cheers]

Must admit it does sound a bit like an Obama speech I heard...