Restraining Pupils !

[Cronky]

We have children in school, know a few teachers and are privy to a lot of 'skeet' from schools across the Island. If there were big problems with drugs, knives and rowdy behaviour then I am sure we would have heard about it by now.

 

Anyone heard of knife crime in schools in the Isle of man?

 

This looks like a solution looking for a problem. I would strongly suspect that the Dep of Ed are just trying to pull UK legislation into the Isle of Man - perhaps unnecessarily. Of course we don't want these problems. But, if they are not really there in the first place why do we need the legislation?

 

Do these ideas come from the Minister or from UK civil servants?

[ans]

You're living in a bubble mate. Drugs and violence is rife at most schools on the Island. I don't know about knives, I'm not sure that's so prevalent but the other things are all over the place. Your kids aren't going to tell you that I'm afraid.

[sarahc]

We have children in school, know a few teachers and are privy to a lot of 'skeet' from schools across the Island. If there were big problems with drugs, knives and rowdy behaviour then I am sure we would have heard about it by now.

 

Anyone heard of knife crime in schools in the Isle of man?

 

This looks like a solution looking for a problem. I would strongly suspect that the Dep of Ed are just trying to pull UK legislation into the Isle of Man - perhaps unnecessarily. Of course we don't want these problems. But, if they are not really there in the first place why do we need the legislation?

 

Do these ideas come from the Minister or from UK civil servants?

 

 

This is a brilliant argument. Next time I get pulled over for using my laptop to cook a bagel while driving I'm going to use this argument. "I know a policeman and he never told me it was against the law. I'd have heard by now if it was."

[Cronky]

Drugs and violence is rife at most schools on the Island.

 

As regards drugs in Grammar schools then you know more than me !

 

Actual incidents of violence are hard to conceal - that's why I am surprised at the lack of skeet on the issue.

 

Do you know any more?

[sarahc]

I suspect that people who actually know will not be prepared to reveal all on an internet forum.

[Cronky]

The point I am raising is:

 

Are they just copying UK legislation or are they writing the legislation locally in response to actual problems?

[Albert Tatlock]

We have children in school, know a few teachers and are privy to a lot of 'skeet' from schools across the Island. If there were big problems with drugs, knives and rowdy behaviour then I am sure we would have heard about it by now.

 

Anyone heard of knife crime in schools in the Isle of man?

 

This looks like a solution looking for a problem. I would strongly suspect that the Dep of Ed are just trying to pull UK legislation into the Isle of Man - perhaps unnecessarily. Of course we don't want these problems. But, if they are not really there in the first place why do we need the legislation?

 

Do these ideas come from the Minister or from UK civil servants?

I'd have to disagree Cronky, though I do understand your concerns regarding copying legislation willy nilly.

 

The fact is, the older you get the more you begin to realise that the island is only ten to twenty years behind the UK, but does eventually catch up. Drugs and poor behaviour are major problems in the UK and are beginning to become major problems in the islands schools now. Giving teachers such powers now will help discourage those who wish to bring drugs and knives in, and discourage those who think rowdy or violent behaviour will be treated with kid gloves.

 

In the UK this is a poor attempt at a cure, here you should look at it as prevention. The true test of politicians and civil servants here will be how they apply it, and what, if anything, they have learned from the mistakes made in the UK over the last ten to twenty years.

 

Also remember, the term 'low crime' is only a relative term - wholly different from 'no crime'.

[Cronky]

Albert, don't get me wrong on this. I don't necessarily disagree with the measures being introduced. When we lived in the UK it was patently obvious that teachers lack of real authority was a fundamental problem. They were simply not equipped, legally to approach the problem. So, children were running amok and the problem was getting out of hand.

 

I am surprised about concerns of violence and knives here and say this because we have had conversations with local teachers and grammar school children as to whether this type of behaviour occurs. The answer is an emphatic NO and that such behaviour warrants exclusion from school.

 

It may well be sensible to strengthen the regulations at this time to forestall such problems migrating across the water. As I have indicated, just copying UK legislation might not be the best thing to do.

 

Are we twenty years behind the UK? It depends which bit of the UK you are looking at and which media you follow. If you compare the Isle of Man to, say, the Shetland Islands then we might be ten years ahead. If you compare the Isle of Man to East London then we are probably thirty years behind.

 

It's a heck of a lot nicer here than most places I know in the UK and I travel about quite a lot.

[Keith brief]

Unfortunately, it's a sad fact that kids today are firmly aware of their rights but not their duty or responsibility.

[monasqueen]

Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that kids do arm themselves, and they have done so for a long time. Whether there is a lot of this on the Island I do not know - I sincerely hope not.

 

A friend of mine, who went into teaching in Liverpool some 40 years ago said that junior school kids there had knives then. Quite frightening.

 

What we seem to need is an educational system that will teach responsibilities rather than fall back on the law to deal with pupils that have failed to act responsibly.

 

Horse, cart?

[manxy]

We have children in school, know a few teachers and are privy to a lot of 'skeet' from schools across the Island. If there were big problems with drugs, knives and rowdy behaviour then I am sure we would have heard about it by now.

My daughter has mentioned of the occassional child with a knife even at school and therefore in my eyes, any one knife is one too many.

Drugs are also within the school gates, being peddled by teenagers and I only wish that 'underage drugs' (just a viewpoint on one particular area) could be stamped out completely.

Reference to violence, she states that there's always fights and scuffles about the place and presume that this would be similar in most schools.

 

Personally, I'm pleased that certain restrictions are being brought forward to assist teachers when required

[ans]

Drugs and violence is rife at most schools on the Island.

 

As regards drugs in Grammar schools then you know more than me !

 

Actual incidents of violence are hard to conceal - that's why I am surprised at the lack of skeet on the issue.

 

Do you know any more?

 

I wasn't talking knife crime. I was talking general 'beaty up' crime. And that's rife. If you believe otherwise, you're incredibly wrong.

[x-in-man]

HOT NEWS -

 

Kids do not all arrive at schools in school Caps and a Lexus. Nor do they spend the day cutting out and sticking stuff on sugar paper and adding bottle tops.

 

Anyone, anywhere that does think this, stands to learn some very hard lesson of their own, pretty damn soon.

 

School are full of people, each who bring what ever problems thay have at home, large or small, into a confined environment. Some do not even want to be there!

 

In the past I have had need to restrain a number of pupils in schools, either to prevent them damaging someone elses little cherrub, or, just as importantly, damaging themselves.

 

I have approached pupils on the school grounds, (not here) and seen all manner of objects being heaved over the nearest fence into fields or gardens next door. A small list to make your hair stand on end here -

 

1 - numerous screw drivers, ranging from 2-3 cm up to 25cm. Some with the ends ground to a point.

2 - hunting knives, divers knives, pen knives, lock knives, kitchen knives, folks, spoons (ground down on one edge) and cork screws.

3 - Air weapons - pistols to saw off rifles.

4 - Replica weapons.

5 - Blank firing (starter pistols) pistols - yes you can be shot with a starter pistol - and yes it hurts, can take off fingers and toes and remove eyes.

6 - lenghts of chain

7 - various home made stars, dusters, knives, 'tools'.

8 - nuts, bolts, screws.

9 - fire works.

 

Its best to be prepared - like it or not, not every school age person is an angel.

[Cronky]

I have approached pupils on the school grounds, (not here) and seen all manner of objects being heaved over the nearest fence into fields or gardens next door. A small list to make your hair stand on end here -

 

I am fully aware that happens in the UK. But are these types of object finding their way into Manx schools? Because if they are, the problem is being well covered up.

[Skeddan]

Before this gets blown out all out of proportion, read the item that started the discussion - this section of it spells it out:

Education Minister Anne Craine explained: 'At present there is the possibility that members of staff restraining children they feared were going to harm themselves or other pupils could be charged with assault.

 

Teachers' professional associations had asked for greater protection in the interests of pupil safety.

 

Acting secretary of the Isle of Man branch of the National Union of Teachers Malcolm Kelly said: 'We welcome that the items in this bill have been put into a legal framework which covers us if we do have to take any actions with regard to violent pupils to restrain them.

 

'It's comforting to know that we can have proper legal support and will have the support of the authority and the department if we are put into a situation where intervention is needed.'

 

Andrew Shipley, branch secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL) gave a cautious welcome to many of the provisions in the bill. He is thankful restraint is not something Island teachers have had to deal with on a regular basis.