Employment During Economic Crisis.

[Sidney]

Link from IOM Today

 

The IOM work permit system has always been, as far as I am aware, in place to protect the interests of Manx workers. This is all fair enough, I for one needed a work permit for my first five years on the island and always agreed with the system.

 

The only bit that worries me about the announcement in the link above is this part:

 

In reply Mr Cretney said that efforts would be made to protect Manx workers as a priority and that the work permit system could be used to protect their interests as permits had to be renewed on an annual basis.

 

Does this mean that a valued employee who has been brought to the island specifically to fulfill a particular role could be ousted from their position after as much as 4 years in the job in order that a Manx worker may be given priority?

 

Does this mean that all renewal applications could be scrutinised to see if this is the case?

 

If this actually becomes reality and starts to happen it would do huge damage to the image of the IOM as far as recruitment from the UK and abroad goes and could very well leave a lot of specialised/niche jobs unfilled as nobody would dare come here to work to to the complete lack of job security.

 

What are you opinions on this; is the IOM being overprotectionist or is this the way ahead to insure the best interests of the Manx populace?

[TerryMcCann]

Seems rather short sighted and dodgy to me.

 

The best person should get the job regardless of where they happen to have been spawned.

 

It is tough enough to recruit good people as it is without putting more discouragements in the way

[manxman8180]

Does this mean that a valued employee who has been brought to the island specifically to fulfill a particular role could be ousted from their position after as much as 4 years in the job in order that a Manx worker may be given priority?

Theroretically, yes the legislation can mean that situation happening. However, a lot of factors are considered, especially should the thought arise about not renewing permits. Facts such as lenght of time on the Island, family circumstances, home owner etc, would be considered by the committee.

 

But the law is there, and in fairness in times of economic growth the WP system is little more than a hurdle for emloyers. The true test of such a system will only come in times of a slow economy, with greater unemployment etc.

 

In terms of it being damaging in terms of recrutiment from the UK. If there were people here, unemployed but with those with those specialist skills, you wouldn't need to recruit from elsewhere would you?

[jehovah]

The WP act works to protect the local workforce. It states that, even if you have a job a manx worker that becomes available, even if less qualified, can claim that job by right if they are suitable. That's the law as it stands, not a bad idea in the 70's maybe but I doubt if it could be enacted now.

We live in interesting times.

[BPs]

Quote from the link.

 

"In reply Mr Cretney said that efforts would be made to protect Manx workers as a priority and that the work permit system could be used to protect their interests as permits had to be renewed on an annual basis."

 

That is correct but the law to protect the Manx worker is therefore flawed.

 

If a company has to lay off people in a financial crisis and some of those people are work permit holders, there is no legal compulsion for the employer to lay off the permit holders first. After a year their permits may be up for renewal and after a year it is ridiculous to not renew a permit unless it was for a fixed term in the first place under the employees contract. The work permit legisation takes this into account. So after one year your in indefinately.

 

Unfortunately Minister Cretney inherited a complete mess when he was made Industry Minister after the former Minister, Alex Downie sacked the entire work permit committee prior to the last General election for reasons Mr Downie would not inform the House of Keys or Tynwald. The new Chief Minister then sacked Downie.

 

The former work permit committee was aware of these problems that could arise but their warnings were ignored.

 

There is a valid arguement to scrap the work permit legislation so the best people can be employed. Sadly this is not being tackled by the Council of Ministers in real proactive terms.

 

In my opinion, despite us being attached to the UK there is a strong case for the IOM to have it's own immigration legislation and not be a rubber stamp of the UK immigration laws when one considers we are NOT an EEC country. We cannot have people coming to the IOM to work when the Government will not provide sufficient infrastructure, housing, health care, education etc. which it presently does not.

 

If it were to do so then the scrapping of work permit legislation would be a done thing. At present there is just a legislative bloody mess open to abuse by whosoever wishes to abuse it. And which is not properly policed by the DTI.

[b4mbi]

this is utter bullshit.

 

If the employer sacked the "non-manx" element of his workforce first, it's discrimination!!! And the employer could be taken to the cleaners through Employment Tribunal.

 

You're effectively discriminating over nationality.

[jehovah]

Happens all the time.

[ai_Droid]

You're effectively discriminating over nationality.

 

 

Which happens in practically every country. You need a visa to work in the USA, and it has to be renewed or you have to leave.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

this is utter bullshit.

 

If the employer sacked the "non-manx" element of his workforce first, it's discrimination!!! And the employer could be taken to the cleaners through Employment Tribunal.

 

You're effectively discriminating over nationality.

 

I agree, it is discrimination and quite wrong.

[b4mbi]

You're effectively discriminating over nationality.

 

 

Which happens in practically every country. You need a visa to work in the USA, and it has to be renewed or you have to leave.

 

 

not quite. I am talking about people who have already been granted the right to work in Isle of Man, and are currently in employment.

 

I think any non-manx worker that was laid off before any manx worker of equivalent skill/level would have a field day at tribunal.

 

very strong case for unfair dismissal on grounds of discrimination, thus costing Manx employers MORE in the long run....

[Chinahand]

The Chamber of Commerce has repeatedly pointed out that the work permit system is a cause of great damage to the Island's international reputation.

 

Employers want to employ those they think will be the best for the job. Our labour pool is just too small to say that the ideal employee will be a manx worker.

 

The result is a bit of a farce with many decisions being basically arbitary.

[Lee54]

this is utter bullshit.

 

If the employer sacked the "non-manx" element of his workforce first, it's discrimination!!! And the employer could be taken to the cleaners through Employment Tribunal.

 

You're effectively discriminating over nationality.

 

The Isle of Man has no reciprical agreements with the UK or EU over employment rights. The Isle of Man can right its own rules on employment within the Island and that's the way it should be. We may only be a small Island but why should that give another the rights to dictate what we do. Lets not forget the UK has just put its two fingers up to us over a couple of issues of late.

But getting back on track if an employer does recruit from the UK or EU then the employer should have the choice to choice who to keep on and that decision MUST be made based on skill and not economic grounds.

[Slim]

not quite. I am talking about people who have already been granted the right to work in Isle of Man, and are currently in employment.

 

I think any non-manx worker that was laid off before any manx worker of equivalent skill/level would have a field day at tribunal.

 

very strong case for unfair dismissal on grounds of discrimination, thus costing Manx employers MORE in the long run....

 

I don't see the difference. The work permit is originally granted with that limitation, same with a US visa. The employer knows, the employee knows that the visa might not be renewed if the countries circumstance changes. If your visa isn't renewed you're booted out and lose your job. The only difference with our work permit system is we can't boot out, we can just take the job away.

[Lee54]

You can get booted off the Island if found to be working without a permit and its been done quite a few times.

[jehovah]

From the gov website

"This covers the case where it is thought, for example, that there may be a downturn in trade which wil result in Isle of Man workers being made redundant, in these circumstances a permit may be refused or it's length restricted"

"not necessarily the best person for the job"

"A Manx worker does not have to be unemployed to be available"