Baby P

[abigail]

The really frightening thing about this story is that there was not alone one involved but definitely 3 people and not one of them could take pity on the poor baby as he must have been crying and so much in pain. Also, I blame who-ever else had seen this baby and did nothing about it. Its getting to be a very sad world when others are afraid to get involved when they see something terrible like this happening to a poor inoccent child.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

THE DETAILS - For those who may have missed it

 

Likewise, I felt my stomach churning with anguish, with disgust and with anger as I heard the report. And I'll also admit to tears.

 

The people responsible for this are not entitled to be treated as if they are members of the human race.

 

I think there must be some massive mental health issues going on with the parents, it is unbelievable that people are capable of doing this.

Mental health my arse they are just plain and simply fuckin evil, lets hope the warders in whatever prison they end up in are proficient in turning a blind eye

 

Well....what do you mean by evil?

And did you read my second post to qualify when I mean?

[Slim]

Personally, although I don't believe in censorship generally, I think there is a strong case for censorship of the sort of violent films and games which appear to be a staple part of the entertainment of a large number of people. It's the main reason why I hate most American films.

 

What a load of daily 'ban this sick filth' rubbish. What link do you have between violent entertainment and violent behaviour?

[jimbms]

THE DETAILS - For those who may have missed it

 

Likewise, I felt my stomach churning with anguish, with disgust and with anger as I heard the report. And I'll also admit to tears.

 

The people responsible for this are not entitled to be treated as if they are members of the human race.

 

I think there must be some massive mental health issues going on with the parents, it is unbelievable that people are capable of doing this.

Mental health my arse they are just plain and simply fuckin evil, lets hope the warders in whatever prison they end up in are proficient in turning a blind eye

 

Well....what do you mean by evil?

And did you read my second post to qualify when I mean?

LDV first of all if you can't see what I mean by evil after what they did to that child then I have serious doubts on your standards, secondly why on earth do you feel the need to defend every lame duck or wrongdoer going. and last of all you do not need to reply to every post by including the last 14 posts and an extract from war and peace. Did no one ever tell you people switch off after a couple of lines, please keep it short, sweet and to the point as when i reply to what you say I tend to look at the begining and end and ignore all the shite in the middle, which by looking at a lot of replys to you seems to be a common trait.

Oh and just to finish I imagine you are a decent bloke by the standard of your posts, so nothing personal in this.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV first of all if you can't see what I mean by evil after what they did to that child then I have serious doubts on your standards, secondly why on earth do you feel the need to defend every lame duck or wrongdoer going. and last of all you do not need to reply to every post by including the last 14 posts and an extract from war and peace. Did no one ever tell you people switch off after a couple of lines, please keep it short, sweet and to the point as when i reply to what you say I tend to look at the begining and end and ignore all the shite in the middle, which by looking at a lot of replys to you seems to be a common trait.

Oh and just to finish I imagine you are a decent bloke by the standard of your posts, so nothing personal in this.

 

It is unfair that you are 'attacking me' because of the questions I am asking in only being interested in what you are thinking; you disagreed with me and I asked why. And rude that you call what I always write to be shite.

I feel I have to write 'War and Peace' as your opinions are so conventional and lacking of any insight, or willingness to understand that to even begin to make you understand any other way of looking at things takes a great deal of explanation, but if you are incapable of any intellectual debate don't read my posts. And I do wonder if you willfully misinterpret what I mean at times. What looks to you as defending wrongdoers and lame ducks seems so because you no doubt believe that the conventional (and unthinking) outlook on society is right and is the truth. Because I recognise the damage that conventional and majoritarian(heterosexist,white supremacist, liberalism) attitudes have in society and how many people are targets for those who have such attitudes - of course I will defend the targets.

You have been told all your life and from popular sources how to see things and just recycle the same stuff. I try not to accept everything I am told and believe that general opinions are the right ones.

 

I will answer you though, no I do not know what YOU mean when you see evil. Are they completely hateful people, are they people who are incapable of doing good things, are they Satan spawn, are they possessed by some malevolent spirit, are they immoral? I asked you to explain because I think it is all too easy to refer to people who do such things as evil and as monsters or inhuman etc. Human beings did this to a child, I find it hard to comprehend how someone could do this. I am not defending them by asking these questions.

[jimbms]

LDV I take back the comment about you defending them but Q.E.D. the rest

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV I take back the comment about you defending them but Q.E.D. the rest

 

Of course, at least by explaining my position I avoid misinterpretation. Should I write more or do you really find it difficult to grasp my way of thinking?

 

Do you really not find it too easy to call these people evil, lock them up, and forget about them without actually asking WHY such people exist and how they could do such a thing to another human being (and a defenseless one)? These people clearly carry such angry and hatred and a complete lack of empathy. And I am not a psychologist but maybe they exhibit strong egocentrisms but I want to know why how such people get like that in our society. This wasn't done by one person.

 

(edited because I was a little drunk when I wrote this)

[jimbms]

LDV I take back the comment about you defending them but Q.E.D. the rest

 

Of course, at least by explaining my position I avoid misinterpretation. Should I write more or do you really find it difficult to grasp my way of thinking?

 

Do you really not find it too easy to call these people evil, lock them up, and forget about them without actually asking WHY such people exist and how they could do such a thing to another human being (and a defenseless one)? These people clearly carry such angry and hatred and a complete lack of empathy. And I am not a psychologist but maybe they exhibit strong egocentrisms but I want to know why how such people get like that in our society. This wasn't done by one person.

 

(edited because I was a little drunk when I wrote this)

LDV you are one of the few people here whom I respect your strong views and the way you put them across, it is because of this I made the comment. Sometimes I do take time to read it all, but you have to remember to a lot of people the sight of such a long post puts them off therefore I think at times some of your very valid comments are missed, so much to the point a couple of us have a bet on to see when the day arrives that one of your replys takes up a full page. As an old house master of mine used to say "Why use a big word when an equaly concise diminutive example will emphasise the explanation of the context to a sufficent conclusion"

(edited to add an "e" I missed)

[jimbms]

Just read this, 15 mins of tears, please someone explain to me how the people who did this are not evil, I can't

Court evidence of Baby P's injuries:

[Addie]

Those images are absolutely sickening.

 

The treatment that this poor little innocent soul endured is horrendous and heartbreaking, and how one human being can treat another in this way is totally inconceivable.

 

There was a discussion on this tragedy on This Week last Thursday night. Reference was made to the default position of trying to keep a family together wherever possible.

 

Andrew Neil mirrored my thoughts when he expressed pure unadulterated anger that baby P, the ‘mother’, her boyfriend, his friend and the friends 15 year old girlfriend could be considered ‘a family’ in any way whatsoever.

 

It seems unbelievable that one has to jump through hoops to get married yet anyone, no matter their habits, mental health, depravities or circumstances can breed, repeatedly, at will. They need not prove their ability to look after themselves, never mind their ability to be responsible for a child

 

The child will pick up the emotional and physical tabs of our allowing them to be exposed to a life of torment in homes from hell that we both allow and in many cases, finance.

 

And how many other children will be used, abused and tortured today and tomorrow and under the vigilance and ‘care’ of the authorities?

 

I do wonder about these 60 visits to this ‘home’.

 

Surely, the child is the priority in every single case? The visitor can’t possibly be distracted by a mums new hairdo, dress or the latest soap chat can they?

 

If there is suspicion of problems, and there obviously was suspicion in this case, then that child should surely be examined closely on every visit. Too easy to cover the bruises with chocolate – Oh how they must have laughed at that image.

 

Little Baby P, on that last visit was completely helpless. He must have been in agony, incapable of asking for help and, unbeknown to him – and apparently the official visitor also - been totally reliant on that one final person turning towards that him, looking, listening, playing and giving baby one hundred percent undiluted attention, thereby discovering that the baby was severely injured and heartbreakingly helpless.

 

How can one miss something like that?

 

And the Doctor! How could he miss all those injuries and a broken back?

 

On a far lesser point, it’s being stated that the ‘home’ was incredibly filthy and unhygenic with dead creatures etc lying around.

 

That was acceptable was it? That’s an OK place for a little 17 month old child to live in?

 

Maybe we should all accept some responsibility for this by virtue of our acquiescence to irresponsible and aggressive attitudes.

 

Poor little Bay P seems to have been let down by every person involved in his short tortuous life.

 

I feel ashamed.

[immortalpuppet]

I mirror all of the comments already made, one thing that keeps popping up in my uneducated brain is why social services/nurses/doctors ect didnt put a stop to this earlier. I have read most of the reports about hiding the injuries and stuff but it makes me wonder how difficult it is to take a baby into care in terms of red tape and the whole procedure surrounding an at risk child.

 

In my simple world it would just be a case of noticing the tell tail signs and the child is whisked away but i am sure there will be alot of legal stuff and with that comes the social workers ect dancing around the issue for fear of being sued or any backlashes that follow.

 

I would love to hear any view of social workers/nurses/doctors who could explain the process (like you were explaining it to a 5 year old so i might just get it!)

[jimbms]

I appologise if you found the images sickening, I could not find the words to express my thoughts on this so I instead used those, but I think your words express my feelings 100%, thank you

[Freggyragh]

LDV first of all if you can't see what I mean by evil after what they did to that child then I have serious doubts on your standards, secondly why on earth do you feel the need to defend every lame duck or wrongdoer going. and last of all you do not need to reply to every post by including the last 14 posts and an extract from war and peace. Did no one ever tell you people switch off after a couple of lines, please keep it short, sweet and to the point as when i reply to what you say I tend to look at the begining and end and ignore all the shite in the middle, which by looking at a lot of replys to you seems to be a common trait.

Oh and just to finish I imagine you are a decent bloke by the standard of your posts, so nothing personal in this.

 

It is unfair that you are 'attacking me' because of the questions I am asking in only being interested in what you are thinking; you disagreed with me and I asked why. And rude that you call what I always write to be shite.

I feel I have to write 'War and Peace' as your opinions are so conventional and lacking of any insight, or willingness to understand that to even begin to make you understand any other way of looking at things takes a great deal of explanation, but if you are incapable of any intellectual debate don't read my posts. And I do wonder if you willfully misinterpret what I mean at times. What looks to you as defending wrongdoers and lame ducks seems so because you no doubt believe that the conventional (and unthinking) outlook on society is right and is the truth. Because I recognise the damage that conventional and majoritarian(heterosexist,white supremacist, liberalism) attitudes have in society and how many people are targets for those who have such attitudes - of course I will defend the targets.

You have been told all your life and from popular sources how to see things and just recycle the same stuff. I try not to accept everything I am told and believe that general opinions are the right ones.

 

I will answer you though, no I do not know what YOU mean when you see evil. Are they completely hateful people, are they people who are incapable of doing good things, are they Satan spawn, are they possessed by some malevolent spirit, are they immoral? I asked you to explain because I think it is all too easy to refer to people who do such things as evil and as monsters or inhuman etc. Human beings did this to a child, I find it hard to comprehend how someone could do this. I am not defending them by asking these questions.

 

Come on LDV, at least try to post something a bit more succint, I have edited your above post for clarity:

 

"I asked a question. I don't write shite. I am clever. You are too thick to understand simple statements. My thoughts are uniquely valid because minorities have special insights. You are not a member of any minority. The only hope you have of understanding the views of homosexuals and other minorities is to read my 'War and Peace' posts. You are narrow-minded. I have unique insight. There is no such thing as 'evil'. If you are a human being, how can you be 'evil'?"

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Come on LDV, at least try to post something a bit more succint, I have edited your above post for clarity:

 

"I asked a question. I don't write shite. I am clever. You are too thick to understand simple statements. My thoughts are uniquely valid because minorities have special insights. You are not a member of any minority. The only hope you have of understanding the views of homosexuals and other minorities is to read my 'War and Peace' posts. You are narrow-minded. I have unique insight. There is no such thing as 'evil'. If you are a human being, how can you be 'evil'?"

 

Ok, ok, if it really is too much then I will shorten the posts. But I thought they were warranted as I often am misunderstood in my views.

[thebees]

I thought the facebook group was one of those 'chain e-mail' things, imagine my horror when I realised it was about real people (yesterday). I don't see how the populous can try to blame social services for this, they do a job, what would the world be like if social workers went into homes thinking this type of abuse was going on as a normal? NO ONE, no matter how trained they are should be expected to expect the most vile of human nature when they go to work, these people know the types they are dealing with but when should they start to expect this type of occurrence as a reality/normality? OFC people are outraged, but, would you like to think your neighbour was capable of the horrors those people committed? The mother, step-father and various lodgers have created a vile situation, I wish them a long life with plenty of time to reflect on what they did (and I'm sure there are other prisoners who will be dealing their own justice).

 

Sickening.