Baby P

[Evil Goblin]

There has been much talk of "Evil" in connection with the Baby P case and others. But what is "Evil"? Does it really exist or is it just a name for things the great majority don't agree with? Seems to me to be just a moral term which means it is an entirely subjective notion with no objective meaning. Seems like something that you and Chinahand would have thoughts, on, LDV.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There has been much talk of "Evil" in connection with the Baby P case and others. But what is "Evil"? Does it really exist or is it just a name for things the great majority don't agree with? Seems to me to be just a moral term which means it is an entirely subjective notion with no objective meaning. Seems like something that you and Chinahand would have thoughts, on, LDV.

 

I would agree with what you say about evil being a moral term.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I am very worried, LDV, as I find that you agree with me (notice that it's not me who agrees with you!).

 

Calm down, it can't be all that worrying. Though I don't see what point you are trying to make with this distinction.

 

But whilst the sensible thing to do is to discover the factors which lead to these situations and thereby learn to prevent them happening at all in the meantime Society must protect itself and, particularly, its' helpless members. This requires sometimes drastic punishments as deterrent to the perpetrators from repeating the offence and to those who might be tempted to commit such offences. The result will always be something of a balancing act. Also, bear in mind that whilst the concept of "revenge" is (rightly) decried as unhelpful in dealing with offenders that desire seems deep-rooted in the human psyche and as part of our reality has to be accepted as such and accomodated in our ways of doing things.

 

Though how much of the idea of revenge is not down to human psyche and is simply a product of social conditioning and custom. I also do not see why aspects of our human psyche need be satisfied simply because they exist. As you know, revenge can cause problems than it apparently solves.

 

Social services took a long time to even recognise that this child was being abused, nevermind talking about deterrence.

[Evil Goblin]

"I find that you agree with me (notice that it's not me who agrees with you!). A(n obviously misplaced) attempt at poking a bit of fun at myself.

 

I think the urge for revenge for injustice perceived to have been suffered is likely to be an inherent aspect of the human condition. Such desires are evidenced in the earliest records of human society. Simply ignoring them is to ignore reality and that never results in optimum outcomes. As human beings constructed as we are, we live an illusion and a desire for revenge seems to be an inherent part of that illusion. So, a sensible way of constructing sanctions for breaches of law is to devise sentencing which contains an appropriate mix of punishment (for deterrent purposes), rehabilitation/corrective treatment (to help ensure breaches are not repeated) and punishment (to provide the emotional release needed by those who have suffered from the offence).

[P.K.]

As human beings constructed as we are, we live an illusion

It comes as no surprise to find you actually know you live in cloud-cuckoo land.

 

Others on here are not so dis-advantaged...

[Evil Goblin]

You remind me of the old saying, PK. If you know you're mad you're actually perfectly sane - if you're sure you are sane you're actually mad. So, where does that put you?

 

Anyone who knows anything about perception, etc. knows we live an illusion. Just that some of us recognise the fact.

[women4justice.co.uk]

After watching the news last night about the tragedy of the short and brutal "life" of baby P, I actually couldn't stop myself from crying when the news was on. This is horrific and anybody that is evil enough to make a precious baby suffer like that poor child did, I'm sorry, but they do not deserve to be alive. I do think that the news story was a bit graphic, showing the blood stained clothes of the poor little mite and a detailed reconstruction of the childs injuries and I actually think that seeing this this will affect me for a while. The failures of social services (again) is shocking, and the whole situation an absolute tragedy.

 

 

May baby P be at peace with the angels and his parents rot in hell.

We agree with you wholeheartedly but there are stories like this here in the Isle of Man. Social Services turn on anyone who reports abuse and Family Court Judges protect Paediphiles and condone violence. If you want to make a difference. We are UK journalists gathering info on the corruptness and incompetence inheritant in the Island which has come to our attention. Register your thoughts or experiences at women4justice.co.uk. We are determined to raise the awareness of this terrible wrong and draconian system through the media but we need to hear from those who have suffered.

women4justice.co.uk

[Pat Ayres]

Not very good journalists, are you?

Corruptness, FFS.

[Cronky]

We agree with you wholeheartedly but there are stories like this here in the Isle of Man. Social Services turn on anyone who reports abuse and Family Court Judges protect Paediphiles and condone violence. If you want to make a difference. We are UK journalists gathering info on the corruptness and incompetence inheritant in the Island which has come to our attention. Register your thoughts or experiences at women4justice.co.uk. We are determined to raise the awareness of this terrible wrong and draconian system through the media but we need to hear from those who have suffered. women4justice.co.uk

 

But are you already on the case about problems in the UK?:

 

Mother denied all access to her children

 

A COURT has denied the former wife of a rich City financier all access to their three children after she was found to be turning them against him.

 

In an extraordinary ruling, the woman, who was also judged to be too indulgent a parent, has been legally barred from seeing her children for three years. She was jailed for approaching one of them in the street and telling him she loved him in breach of a court order. She is facing a possible return to jail this summer for posting a video about her plight on the internet.

 

The woman judge presiding over the case justified banning contact between the mother and her children because they were being placed in “an intolerable situation of conflict of loyalties resulting in them suffering serious emotional harm”.

 

During supervised visits with her, the children made serious allegations about their father which were later shown to be unfounded. Social workers believed the mother was either prompting them to make the claims or they were saying them just to please her.

[manxman2]

the sad part is that there are most likely many more baby P's out there that are as yet unfound and removed from delinquent parents. both parents should be sterilized to prevent them from taking part in making babies again.

 

would that be with or without anesthetic.

[Pat Ayres]

Possibly with anaesthetic

[women4justice.co.uk]

Situations like Baby P arise because when people like Nevres Kamal try to express themselves they get harrassed, accused, bullied and threatened. People are blind to the truth of things that are going on on their own doorstep. In this forum I was attacked because I dare to say that Child abuse happens in the IOM and is covered up by Social Services. If people are ignorant enough to make uneducated purile comments on a serious subject such as the fact that Social Services don't always get it right, then what hope do children have of ever being believed.

I speak on behalf of someone I know who was abused and is still being abused because Social Services refuse to do their job.

I can only show amazement for the lack of compassion shown to a serous subject concerning your own Island and its failure to protect defenceless children, when this clearly comes from a lack of knowledge and a refusal to accept that the Island is not the safe perfect haven you might think. But go on burying your heads in the sand and allow abuse to continue and attack anyone who dares to say it exists, but AFTER ALL THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO BABY P WHO INCIDENTALLY COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED IF SOMEONE HAD LISTENED TO NEVRES RATHER THAN DAMNING HER FOR TRYING TO TELL THE TRUTH!

 

To the person who made the comments re this being a fairy story which apparently made her CROSS, I can only say you have not seen the effects of abuse on an innocent little child and I hope you never have to!

[Miss Take]

Might I suggest that if you have specific incidences of abuse that you know are happening, then coming onto an unrelated internet forum is not really the best way to go about getting help for the people involved.

 

Coming on here and talking in vague generalisations or about cases that have nothing to do with the IOM is bound to get you flamed, no matter how angry you get and how many times you write in capitals.

[women4justice.co.uk]

Might I suggest that if you have specific incidences of abuse that you know are happening, then coming onto an unrelated internet forum is not really the best way to go about getting help for the people involved.

 

Coming on here and talking in vague generalisations or about cases that have nothing to do with the IOM is bound to get you flamed, no matter how angry you get and how many times you write in capitals.

Might I suggest that most of the people here have completely misunderstood my reasons for coming on this site, ie to see if there was anyone else out there needed our help and to get people talking and thinking about what is happening under their noses. It's obvious why I cannot be specific, but is this site only for slating anything that threatens peoples views of what they want to believe is an idylistic community? Seems people are quite happy to debate the issue of Baby P because they can say oh how dreadful it was, but they are not threatened by it because it happened in the UK and not on their own doorstep. Prevention is better than cure and knowing about others who may be facing these horrific circumstances is part of prevention. We have already heard from a few via our website as a reslut of these posts, so that was our aim and will continue to be so.

It amazes me that obscene language and unqualified angst is rife on here, but common sense and open mindedness or even concern that things may not be quite right for innocent kids on the Island are met with hostility and get off this site and then requests for me to expose the identities of those who are vulnerable to a bunch of strangers all of whom are suggesting they don't give a damn. I rest my case.

[women4justice.co.uk]

Might I suggest that if you have specific incidences of abuse that you know are happening, then coming onto an unrelated internet forum is not really the best way to go about getting help for the people involved.

 

Coming on here and talking in vague generalisations or about cases that have nothing to do with the IOM is bound to get you flamed, no matter how angry you get and how many times you write in capitals.

Might I suggest that most of the people here have completely misunderstood my reasons for coming on this site, ie to see if there was anyone else out there needed our help and to get people talking and thinking about what is happening under their noses. It's obvious why I cannot be specific, but is this site only for slating anything that threatens peoples views of what they want to believe is an idylistic community? Seems people are quite happy to debate the issue of Baby P because they can say oh how dreadful it was, but they are not threatened by it because it happened in the UK and not on their own doorstep. Prevention is better than cure and knowing about others who may be facing these horrific circumstances is part of prevention. We have already heard from a few via our website as a reslut of these posts, so that was our aim and will continue to be so.

It amazes me that obscene language and unqualified angst is rife on here, but common sense and open mindedness or even concern that things may not be quite right for innocent kids on the Island are met with hostility and get off this site and then requests for me to expose the identities of those who are vulnerable to a bunch of strangers all of whom are suggesting they don't give a damn. I rest my case.

And yes, I know I had a typo on result, before I get slated for that as well! I don't think I have ever come across such hypocrisy as to show sympathy for a case that is off Island but to throw mud at people who say it is happening here and something needs to be done about it. It is the usual Manx Crab Syndrome that prevails. Very very sad and no wonder these things go on happening with atitudes like these.