Bill Posters Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 People die on our roads - we should try and stop it. Speed is part of the issue but its not the bogey man it is made out to be. We, the public, do not seem to bat an eye if people are killed on the roads, unless we are directly affected. I can't quote figures, but I understand that even during Northern Irelands worst years of the troubles MORE peope were killed in car crashes than by acts of violence. Did that reach the headlines? As someone who is both an experienced bike rder and car driver, I have never understood this us-vs-them attitude from either side. Experienced bike riders tend to read the road better than other road users, inexperienced ones..... don't even try - and some, sadly won't live long enough to become experienced. Experienced car drivers tend to be corteous, and patient. Imexperienced drivers..... tend to annoy everyone and cause most accidents. Excessive Speed just seems to magnify the worst quality of any road users. (Edited to add the word Excessive in the sentence above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 oh hang on I didn't write that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Cars vs Bikes is an irrelevant arguement because neither have a majority of sensible users and neither has the monopoly on idiots. The simple fact is no road vehicle should travel over 60 mph on the Isle of Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purrrrrrrrrrry Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 From the IOM figures we find that on average under half of accidents are caused by speeding - if we take a closer look at the data we will find that in the 11 years covered that 2 years (1994 and 2000) had no accidents where speed was a factor. don't believe me ? check for yourself. Its page 17.I'd suggest ppl check Page 16 first! (If they hadn't already worked it out for themselves by the earlier stats) So therefore it would make more sense to actually make the TT course one way only for two weeks and save more lives. Given the timing of some of the fatalities in this last year, are you proposing that this is enforced 24hrs/day? I'm dying to know how that would work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Pallindrome Man, Thanks for the link, and the breakdown of figures. Speed cameras on their own *may* go some way to calming a particular car's speed in a particulr 100yards of road, but it doesn't address the larger percentage of accidents that occur under 59mph. In the bigger scheme of things, I'm more concerned about cars doing 40mph through Homezones, even if it would only result in serious injury, rather than death, and the Island wide minority who have an aversion to considerate driving. A quick scan through the contents table at least shows that a more thorough consultation is being taken than than the media was able portray when they concentrated on spedlimits (the most likely to create conflict). I'll resist further comment until after reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I would like to remind you all about one of the facts that I mentioned above - that in 2000 14 people died and not one accident was speed related. Cold harsh fact of life time. Would they have died if they had been driving at 10mph? If your answer is no, then speed was a factor. If your answer is yes, well, if you don't understand it, I'm not explaining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallybug Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I would like to remind you all about one of the facts that I mentioned above - that in 2000 14 people died and not one accident was speed related. Cold harsh fact of life time. Would they have died if they had been driving at 10mph? If your answer is no, then speed was a factor. If your answer is yes, well, if you don't understand it, I'm not explaining it. Nope, the pertinent question, Ans, is would they have died travelling at 60mph - the proposed limit. The answer is possibly yes, with the amount of energy in a vehicle travelling at those speeds. If you want to take it to extremes, then twisting your ankle when you walk off a kerb is 'speed-related' as you were in motion. If you then stumble into the path of a milk float doing 5mph, does that go down as a speed-related RTA? 'Speed-related' in respect to vehicles accidents tends normally to be regarding either excess speed beyond the limits imposed on the section of road concerned or excessive speed for the conditions (witness mass pile-ups on motorways in fog - weren't braking the speed limit, but even 50mph on a warning sign is still too fast for the conditions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Nope, the pertinent question, Ans, is would they have died travelling at 60mph - the proposed limit. In that case the assumption that speed is not an issue is a calculation, not a determinable fact. I thank yew (I think that's how the smug little boy put it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallybug Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 All depends on the requirements of the Police investigator's RTA report - I've never seen one, have you? If it includes a section regarding speed of the vehicle involved in the incident, and that fact is not noted, then surely speed would not be an official factor. If you just want to say that speed causes accidents, then never get in a vehicle and use Shank's Pony for every trip you have to make. Humans are very fragile animals - it doesn't take much to cause us major harm or kill us. And maybe if people don't understand what you're trying to say, then you're not getting your POV across very well, are you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetAnotherManxForum Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Seems to me that there's a massive kneejerk reaction which was just an excuse to impose a load of changes; some of which to the advantage of the Governments coffers. Speed limits, MOT! (WTF is that about), lower alcohol limit (should be zero not just lower), increasing learning age... Next thing you know your car will have to be a max of 5 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 And maybe if people don't understand what you're trying to say, then you're not getting your POV across very well, are you Sorry, I was paraphrasing and taking the xxxx out of someone else above me. Maybe you need to read more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 The simple fact is no road vehicle should travel over 60 mph on the Isle of Man. That's an interesting perception of the word 'fact'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiler Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Seems to me it's all a massive and over the top knee-jerk reaction. Accidents happen and always will, there's no way to stop them, and personally I don't agree that if just one life is saved it's worth it. You could use that "argument" against anything. Currently I obey all limits at (almost) all times - and doing so means I get impatient drivers overtaking in 30, 40 or even 20 limits and tailgaters up my arse all the time. Yet in my 10 years of driving/riding experience I've seen just six speed traps. Motorways in England are limited to 70mph, yet in my experience those in the slow lane travel at 70mph - the other two lanes much faster. People all over the World envy us for our freedom on the roads. People from all over the World come here because of our freedom on the roads. Our freedom on the roads brings in a huge amount of money from tourists, which is pretty much the only income we seem to have apart from the Finance Sector. Most people who live here are totally against the limits, judging from various polls and generally talking to people. My main problem with the limit (apart from feeling there is no need) is that it would kill off the TT, which is probably one of the main reasons they are pushing these limits in IMO. The TT is part of our heritage, it's the best time of the year here, and most people love it, whether or not they like bikes. The change over here if the TT ceased or even shrunk in terms of tourist numbers would be huge, many businesses rely on it in a big way, and would struggle without it - including hotels, B&Bs, shops, restaurants and pubs. We don't have a huge choice of these as it is - if these limits come in we'll have far less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetAnotherManxForum Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 The TT is part of our heritageHeritage? - I think you need to go back further than the 20th century dude to call anything heritage. Strewth. People all over the World envy us for our freedom on the roads. People from all over the World come here because of our freedom on the roads.People from all over the World come here and die because of our freedom on the roads. I don't mind speed limits, but at the moment there are single track roads all over the IoM with open speed limits. Now what moron would authorise that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purrrrrrrrrrry Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 People all over the World envy us for our freedom on the roads. People from all over the World come here because of our freedom on the roads.People from all over the World come here and die because of our freedom on the roads. I don't mind speed limits, but at the moment there are single track roads all over the IoM with open speed limits. Now what moron would authorise that? Hear, hear, YAMF! yet in my experience those in the slow lane travel at 70mph - the other two lanes much faster. What slow lane smiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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