Fred Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Looking at the Road Safety Proposals,it appears that 85% of drivers (Excluding motorcyclists) would not be upset/bothered by speed limits of 60mph on Strategic routes and 70mph on the mountain road. I wander if they feel the same about the proposed Secondary routes at 50mph and Local roads at 40mph? Just a thought. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Well I wasn't asked, was anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Here's an example of how much logic has been employed with regard to these plans. Quotes on the matter from chief inspector, Gary Roberts: "The people being targeted are those who routinely break speed limits and travel at excessive speed." So to combat the idiot drivers who ignore speed limits they're going to introduce, wait for it......... a speed limit. Nice. Specially when it's accompanied by: "CI Roberts admitted enforcing the policies outlined will present problems" Good to know these things get thought through properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirdick Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Haha oh dear. Well said Fred, I made a post a while ago relating to the roads I actually use (as opposed to the mountain road which I use about 5 times a year at most). The roads I take are open, well spaced, no tight bends or high hedges and quiet (most of the time) so why should I have to tootle around at 40? Fair enough try and keep the speed of idiots down but those who break the existing limit obviously won't keep to a new one as our good Chief pointed out. Smiler said the TT is part of our heritage, although it makes us a nice bit of cash, everyone is against it now. People moan it's not the fact that bikers come here and kill themselves (a broad statement that) but that they kill locals in the process. Unless you've just moved here,you should know how the TT runs, where people ride and what's generally happening, so if you go where the bikes will run you down DON'T. I've managed to avoid being run down by these suicidal/homicidal bikers for the last 20 years, I'm sure you can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireblade Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 well said sirdick i bet most of the wingers on here arnt from the island.thats something ive never quite grasped why people come here because of lifestyle etc etc then procede to try and change it not logical at all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 I'm not really for the speed limit as people are aware but mainly because I don't think it will realistically improve anything and even from the police point of view it seems to be a bit futile. However, I don't think people are really 'whinging' just because they want our roads to be safer for everyone who uses them. I certainly don't want a maniac driving or riding through my windscreen when I'm out on the road and I see it as a valid concern, not a whinge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 A quote from Unisol "Well I wasn't asked, was anyone else?" The point of the Road Safety Initiative Proposals is for people to express their opinions. From the introduction "This document sets out the Department’s aims, objectives and proposals for road safety, and seeks views on them by 31st August 2004. All comments should be submitted in writing to: Road Safety Initiative Committee, Department of Transport, Highways Division, Sea Terminal Building, Douglas, Isle of Man. IM1 2RF " If you hold strong views -write and write to your MHK if enough people express the same viewpoint some notice might be taken!! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 As an ex **** employee I know all too well how statistics are intepreted/massaged/presented to give the answers required When you look at the various groups with an interest in this subject, ie the police, motoring organisations, insurance companies etc. It soon becomes clear that all these groups are using the same casualty figures but because each group applies different criteria when attributing accident causation, each group arrives at a figure or figures which appear to support their own case. (info gleaned from the site linked by observers earlier post re speed limits) I happen to think that the introduction of speed cameras coupled with better, more effective policing will reduce accidents. That can only be a good thing and besides, alternatives seem to be very thin on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=^..^= Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 I happen to think that the introduction of speed cameras coupled with better, more effective policing will reduce accidents. That can only be a good thing and besides, alternatives seem to be very thin on the ground. Apart from better education which will improve driving standards everywhere. As a cyclist I'd guess I have a 'stupid car driver' moment at least once a week - which is why I ride my mountain bike more often than my road bike. 90% of my riding on roads is around town with the remainder being small back roads. Cars will pull out in front of me on junctions, cut me up when passing me - I've even been hit on the shoulder and head by wing mirrors. All of which are at the least driving with out due care and attention. How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't. How often do you see a drunk get into a car and weave off up the road ? How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't. How often do you see people 'amber gambling' and going through red lights - forcing someone else to have to lift off the throttle or even brake to avoid them ? How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't How often do you see someone parked on double yellows obscuring vision from a junction - making you have to pull out further and further to see what traffic is coming ? How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't How often do you see a driver on their mobile as they turn a juction ? How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't How often are you 'drafted' by a car or van - sitting close enough for you to think they are attached to your tow bar ? How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't How often do you see someone driving round town with their fog lights on ? How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't All of the above may not kill people - but they are just examples of illegal/bad driving because people don't think about what they are doing. And when people don't think about driving then thats when accidents happen. And in any accident luck (good or bad) plays a major part. Educate drivers. We need better drivers not people who will blindly follow a speed limit and assume they are safe. Because they are not. I want to share the roads with drivers who realise that they are in charge of 500lb of killing motorbike, drivers who realise they are in charge of two tons of lethal car. Drivers who realise that death is trying to thumb a lift on every corner - not just waiting on a 37 3/4 mile strip of tarmac. If anyone knows me have a look at my left hand, ribs and legs next time you see me - you'll see the bruises on my legs, the ribs which aren't quite in line and you'll see the scars on my hand from the pins which held the bones in place. The scars which have reminded me every day for the last 15 years that it wasn't speed which did this to me - it was a driver not thinking about what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Cars will pull out in front of me on junctions, cut me up when passing me - I've even been hit on the shoulder and head by wing mirrors. All of which are at the least driving with out due care and attention. How is a speed camera going to catch them ? It won't. I dont imagine for a second that speed limits and cameras etc will stop all accidents, What I said was, in my opinion, Speed cameras along with more effective policing will reduce the number of accidents. Of course other measures will probably be introduced which may reduce the number of accidents even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Sir xxxx - you say people should avoid the places the bikers go - does that include people on their way to work who are hit head on on the wrong side of the road in Kirk Michael at 7-30 in the morning? Or Richmond Hill. The way I see it is the only way to save the T.T. in the long term is to pull the rug from under the one decent arguement for its banning (that innocent parties are being killed as a result of dangerous riding). To do that we need to break the idea that you can visit the Island and enjoy a free-for-all on its roads. We have to make a stand against the reckless and the irresponsible. And the best way to do this is to introduce and enforce speed limits. It is a symbolic gesture. =^..^= - speed restrictions won't cure the problems you mention but it will make a difference in some accidents and it is a start in creating a culture of sensible road use. At the moment the Island is effectively saying "do whatever the xxxx you want". That can't be allowed to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Here's an example of how much logic has been employed with regard to these plans. Quotes on the matter from chief inspector, Gary Roberts: "The people being targeted are those who routinely break speed limits and travel at excessive speed." So to combat the idiot drivers who ignore speed limits they're going to introduce, wait for it......... a speed limit. Nice. Specially when it's accompanied by: "CI Roberts admitted enforcing the policies outlined will present problems" Good to know these things get thought through properly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sums it all up really. Far from being the police standing up and doing something good this IS just a cop-out, maybe not in the sense that they daren't stand up to public opinion but in the sense that they are doing nothing to improve the standards of driving on the Island. I've been stood on the pavement watching traffic go by a lot in the last two weeks (now i've finished school i've taken up being a rent-boy) and some of the things i've seen have left me amazed that these people are still on the road. I've seen a small child nearly get crushed on his bike despite doing everything correctly (singalling, road position etc, the only reason he didn't get hit is because he was aware enough to roll the bike back a metre or so before the old man in his big merc hit him ), I've seen people drive on the wrong side of the road past a lane of traffic at the traffic lights and pull in at the front, I've seen people throw U-turns a few yards away from a corner that they could not see around. My favourite one was standing outside St Ninians opposite the grass triangle a car comes down from ballanard road traffic lights and turns right down the no entry lane past the school! If he'd taken the extra 3 seconds to drive the few metres down the road and turned right there would have been no problem. It's people like that the police need to target, the ones who deliberately flout laws or can't read road signs rather than the ones who go over 60mph in areas where that speed can be done safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Jeez the auto censer's a bit hasty on this forum isn't it? Fireblade: I am local, if you're putting me in the wingers group. It's amusing how you just make stuff like that up. It makes your other points pretty worthless. But what difference does it make anyway, if someone lives here, they're entitled to an opinion on an issue that will affect their safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 I'm local too, born and raised, and I absolutely support the introduction of a national speed limit. And make no mistake, this isn't a proposal we're discussing, it's a declaration of intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirdick Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 I've just come back from Douglas. Travelled along the coast road past Groudle, it's a 40 limit along there. A silver English reg car nearly passed over onto my side of the road doing - I would estimate - about 60. It was a tight corner and he couldn't see round it, yet he still drove wildly around it close to hitting me. Speed limits, why bother eh? As I've said before, introduce a speed limit if they can enforce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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