Delegation To Westminster Report Bacl

[%age]

Steve Rodan is back from Westminster, as reported on Manx Radio with interview on the Mandate Programme this morning.

 

I don't think he sounds too happy about the trip although it appears some people were interested in something about a 1000 year parliament.

 

Does that mean 1000 years of sticking two fingers up at the UK?

 

We'll see how Tony and Noel get on today.

[%age]

For the record, here is the interview. (It's a bit dry but if anyone is interested its, er sort of interesting. Maybe).

 

200811113_Mandate_Steve_Rodan_lowQ.mp3

[Skeddan]

Sort of interesting....

 

As reported by MR:

 

Yesterday, President of Tynwald Noel Cringle and Speaker of the House of Keys Steve Rodan led a Manx delegation to Westminster which held a series of meetings to promote a wider understanding of the Island's constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom.

 

As per interview with Steve Rodan:

 

"We very much met our objectives .... greater appreciation of our constitutional position…"

 

However this mainly seems to have been about IoM being highly regulated finance centre, reputable with OECD, and being financially independent of the UK.

 

As for the constitutional position, and wider understanding of the constitutional relationship - well that is just as obscure as ever - not that I ever thought that this was going to be addressed. No clarity on the limits of Westminster's power to legislate for IoM, the legal status of IoM, the status of Manx sovereignty, issues of right to self-determination, sovereignty over natural resources (such as exclusive fisheries zone) or any of that.

 

So either they failed dismally in their objectives, or the objectives would be more properly described not as to do with the constitutional relationship, but to do with the regulatory framework and status of IoM as a reputable finance centre.

 

IMO the two should not be confused and I'd hope Steve Rodan would know better than to do that.

[John]

Dr Robert Shapiro - Adviser Obama Transition Team - as part of

longer interview about the American economy, is asked about

tax havens. (You need broadband to access BBC iPlayer)

 

 

"a key member of Barack Obama's transition team,

financial advisor Robert Shapiro,

worked as Under Secretary of Commerce for Bill Clinton".

 

 

BBC Newsplayer - 'Newsnight' - Thursday 13 November 2008

**********************************************

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/default.stm

 

 

The interview is 23 mins 18 secs into the broadcast.

It ends at 24mins 42 secs

 

 

Some Info emailed to me, thought you may also find it interesting.

 

John

[Albert Tatlock]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/default.stm

This link is better - from 22 minutes in. Oooooooooooooooer!

 

edited to add: ...and why didn't we try to get someone on newsnight too???!!!

 

Please drive this better someone.

 

 

.

[%age]

Gordon Brown and the UK Government are in between a rock and a hard place aren't they

 

Isle of Man or United States of America . . . . . . .

[%age]

Lord Chancellor reassures Island

 

Manx Radio

 

Well actually he doesn't, does he?

 

More like Tony says he is reassured after meeting the United Kingdom's Lord Chancellor, Jack Straw.

 

Not quite the same thing is it.

[jaybs]

The BBC Politics Show did a fair piece today (Sunday) in the North West opt out section of the show, was quite well balanced,

[Snaipyr]

I liked the comment:

 

But after visiting Westminster yesterday, Mr Brown says Mr Darling isn’t out to scupper the Island's finance sector

 

The Islands financial sector is already scuppered - ask him for cash and see what their appetite is to bring us into the UK. The issue moving forward is jobs; not whether we should keep our special status with the UK. You're making a big assumption that keeping our status as a financial centre is the right thing to do in the climate moving forward, and also that the finance sector is still capable of bringing new wealth into the Island and maintaining employment. I think the Jury is out on both points.

 

Plan 'B' has to be throw the towel in and see what deal we could cut for giving it all up.

 

Why on earth would anyone here want to be part of the UK? This is a serious question - I'd really like to know the reasoning.

[gazza]

i think its time we just cut all ties with the uk and become our own free independence, we half way there anyways,

so why not take the last step and do it,

 

cant see what the uk brings to us

[Skeddan]

I think the decision should be left to the people of IoM and the status should be decided that way - whether independence, free association, or incorporation/annexation into the UK. But the UK aren't going to let that happen either. IoM's status is not open for review - so can forget about 'Plan B' or independence or exercising any right of self-determination.

[gazza]

I think the decision should be left to the people of IoM and the status should be decided that way - whether independence, free association, or incorporation/annexation into the UK. But the UK aren't going to let that happen either. IoM's status is not open for review - so can forget about 'Plan B' or independence or exercising any right of self-determination.

 

not that i have a clue about these things,

but is it up to the uk goverment if we want to leave them, can thay stop it from happining

[Skeddan]

gazza - it's not at all clear.

 

To give an example of how it might be: The people of Hong Kong couldn't have broken free of the UK and set up to be independent when HK was held as a British territory. The UK couldn't have granted them independence if they'd wanted to. Neither could the UK have made HK part of the domestic territory of the UK (like the French claim to have done with Tahiti and New Caledonia).

 

When all the other possessions - some even smaller than IoM - were on the road to independence and given 'right of self determination' with referendum of people to chose the future, HK was not included. The constitutional relationship wasn't up for review or renegotiation - it wasn't open to change - other than tinkering with how HK is managed and run.

 

IMO the relationship between IoM and the UK is more like this. It is 'stuck' in the sense that neither IoM nor the UK can change it, either by themselves or jointly. There is no possibility of IoM becoming a member state of the EU or becoming a part of the UK. It is not a 'plan' - at least not until some real fundamental issues are dealt with to show it is possible.

 

If it were possible, then the UK should have arranged a referendum on independence long long ago. IoM is like the Miss Haversham of non-self-governing territories. Like vainly expecting that the groom will turn up when it will never happen.

 

IMO instead of just sitting in the hole thinking this is where you want to be and pretending you can get out whenever you want, start to get real about it. Get to grips with exactly what is the nature of the bizarre relationship with the UK - don't fool yourself into supposing it is something it may not be - figure it out. Then you can figure out what it takes to get out of the hole.

 

No one has really carefully examined the question. For all anyone knows IoM could still belong to Norway - in which case nothing can change without their being part of the agreement.