" Darling's Isle Of Man Must Be On Some Other Planet "

[pongo]

Pongo, as has already been stated, we are the easiest target for the blame, and IMO the fact that we are even being mentioned means that we are being looked at and this can mean that they WILL be discussing our relationship, what this will bring is only to be guessed at.

 

Blame for what exactly?

 

And the relationship probably does need looking at. So that would be a good thing. No?

 

Everyone needs to stop being paranoid and, instead, to start addressing the business of shifting towards an economic model which is sustainable long term.

[homarus]

Pongo, as has already been stated, we are the easiest target for the blame, and IMO the fact that we are even being mentioned means that we are being looked at and this can mean that they WILL be discussing our relationship, what this will bring is only to be guessed at.

 

Blame for what exactly?

 

And the relationship probably does need looking at. So that would be a good thing. No?

 

Everyone needs to stop being paranoid and, instead, to start addressing the business of shifting towards an economic model which is sustainable long term.

 

 

Ah the dreaded S word!

 

It can't be? You're not?

 

Pongo! are you Gordon Brown???

[John]

I am not arguing against your case that we need to be above reproach and have a crystal clear financial system.

 

But don’t we all ready seem to be heading in that direction, yet still we are attacked and branded as a TAX HAVEN, we shout back, that we are a highly regulated financial institute etc etc.. yet a few weeks down the line .. here we are again. Excuse me for being cynical, just seems that its happening more and more often and when the G Brown says it will be looked at, then I think its becoming serious, its not just someone talking at a dinner speech anymore.

[pongo]

I am not arguing against your case that we need to be above reproach and have a crystal clear financial system.

 

I think that many people know in their hearts that, whatever happens, the finance sector will probably not be able to support us long term in the style to which we have become accustomed. So we should probably therefore be realistically lowering our expectations, for moment at least, and planning for the inevitable transition. Most of the skills here are transferable and I do not actually think that we face a future which is necessarily economically bleak.

 

Insert something here about nothing to fear but fear itself * (FDR)

 

Transition is often economically stimulating, often lasts generations and creates work. EU membership would keep most of the island in work for years btw and would come with many benefits.

[Cronky]

From the BBC website:

 

There will be a review of the financial compensation arrangements that currently do not cover UK residents who save money in banks based in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

 

However, the chancellor warned that the UK taxpayer could not be expected to become the guarantor of last resort.

 

That statement, in itself, does not sound threatening. Just wait for ths spin!

[John]

But why else would a Financial Institute come to the Isle of Man..? Without the Tax advantages we are..? This talk of us being "looked at closely" will not be doing our image in the eyes of already hesitant persons any good at all.

 

So maybe the day will come that we all have to adapt to an IOM that is not a tax haven. But IMO this transition will not be all “economic stimulation" but job losses, skills migration and a return to a bleaker time.

 

Now on a sunny note........

[Sebrof]

It was the best minds of their generation who stuffed the economy - by inventing ever more bogus and bizarre financial instruments for the purpose of securitizing worthless debt. And then convincing each other that it all made perfect sense. It was an international problem - and any government which had spoken out against that system would have been vilified and destroyed in the international media.

 

With respect, the biggest problem in the UK is not the funny financial instuments but the housing bubble, and that was eminently avoidable.

 

S

[%age]

What does he plan to do , Invade or blockade us?

Give us full independence?

 

Which is quite the opposite to both of the above.

[Cronky]

From the Pre Budget Report:

 

3.55 Many crown dependencies and overseas territories are significant financial centres in

their own right and the financial sector plays a vital role in their economies. The Government

recognises the progress made by most offshore financial centres to improve financial

regulation and transparency, and tackle financial crime. However, crown dependencies and

overseas territories, like all offshore financial centres, face challenges and opportunities as

the world is changing. In particular, severe financial turbulence has raised questions for all

jurisdictions, while there is growing international pressure to line up standards of financial

regulation and meet international norms with regards to taxation.

3.56 The Government will shortly commission an independent review of British offshore

financial centres; their role in the global economy; and their long-term business strategies.

The review will not consider changes to the UK’s constitutional relationship. It will work with

the crown dependencies and overseas territories to identify current and future opportunities,

risks and mitigation strategies, including issues such as:

 

* financial supervision and transparency;

* fiscal arrangements;

* financial crisis management and resolution arrangements; and

* international cooperation.

[oldmanxfella]

But why else would a Financial Institute come to the Isle of Man..? Without the Tax advantages we are..? This talk of us being "looked at closely" will not be doing our image in the eyes of already hesitant persons any good at all.

 

I do wonder that someone so unrelentingly clueless actually holds public office.

[%age]

There is nothing to fear. There will be no change. The Isle of Man Government will still have free reign to fuck around and 'waste' £100millions of our money. (Government money is never 'wasted' it goes somewhere).

 

At what point does does someone, if anyone at all, say to the Isle of Man Government "Hey you guys, you're mis-managing and/or seemingly allowing to be mis-appropriated £100millions of your tax payers/our tax dodgers money"?

[Skeddan]

From the Pre Budget Report:

 

Note that in the Pre-Budget Report review of the Crown Dependencies as financial centres is one of HMG's three main international priorities.

 

Looking to the future, and given the global nature of this instability, the Government’s international

priorities include:

• as the 2009 Chair of the G20, making rapid progress on priority issues for the future of the international financial regulatory system;

• ensuring that the EU learns the lessons from the crisis, in particular regarding supervision and deposit protection arrangements for banks operating across borders; and

• reviewing the long-term opportunities and challenges for the UK’s crown dependencies and overseas territories as financial centres.

 

However as noted by Cronky, is is explicity stated that "The review will not consider changes to the UK’s constitutional relationship."

 

As I've been harping on about, IoM might do well to get clarity on the exact nature of this bizarre and obscure constitutional relationship with the UK and to know exactly where it stands in this. Having a clear and solid understanding of one's legal position in a relationship is simply good sense as preparation for any negotiations.

 

An attitude of 'oh it doesn't matter' or 'it's not important' and supposing that being uninformed and ignorant about such matters is of no disadvantage strikes me as incredibly naive. Should one assume it is an unfathomable mystery incapable of being answered, even by a trained chimpanzee with enough bananas? (to borrow from a comment by a former Clerk of Tynwald). Why the stubborn avoidance of clarification of this question? If one buries one's head in the sand over this, how can one be certain that this is for the best? Who knows, getting to the bottom of this might prove to be very much to IoM's advantage.

 

IoMG spends enormous amounts on Commissions, Inquiries and Reports, yet there is total disregard and silence on this topic which is a matter of fundamental importance in the key relationship with the UK. One would think this might be a major priority. Instead it seems as if it is firmly established that this is something on which to keep 'eyes wide shut'. Why? Is it something cloaked in secrecy and off-limits, and forbidden to pry into? If not, what reason can there be to not try to get to the bottom of this? Under present circumstances I would think this would be even more of a priority.

 

It's a wonder that IoMG seem to be so unrelentingly clueless about the exact nature of the constitutional relationship with the UK.

[pongo]

@ Skeddan - there are many precedents in the UK and Britain and the British Isles and the EU and europe for ill-defined or anomalous constitutional arrangements. You will know that the UK does not exactly have a written constitution, for example.

 

Sometimes not exactly defining something is the best way forward - and a relationship does not always need to be exactly defined provided that it can be made to work. Also EG:

 

- the northern Ireland peace process has been very much about not always getting too stuck down on the exact wording for example - or allowing different meanings to be attached to words. A very positive use of ill-defined language IMO.

 

- the EU constitution which either is or is not a constitution depending on how you look at it and where you attach your meanings.

 

- the question of federalism or not within the EU - depending upon what people want to mean by federalism etc.

[Skeddan]

pongo - difference between constitutional arrangements and 'constitutional relationship'. Let me rephrase to clarify - IoM's status in international law. It is not a sovereign state. It is a dependent territory (which sounds a bit like Baltic states under Soviet Union).

 

IoM is a non-self-governing territory, yet does not seem to have right of self-determination. The limits of the UK's power and control over IoM is far from clear. Ultimately can UK impose whatever legislation on IoM it likes or not? To answer that requires establishing the legal source of the UK's power and control over IoM. Is it held under de facto control by UK as an Administering Power? Is it a colonial possession? What exactly happened to the sovereignty that IoM had prior to 1764?

 

"Sometimes not exactly defining a relationship is the best way forward." The notion of 'constructive ambiguity' comes into play when different sides have different positions and views. IOMG doesn't have a view - just unrelenting cluelessness.

 

In a relationship say between landlord and tenant, if one side is clueless about their rights and position, aren't they more likely to be taken advantage of and taken for a ride? e.g. thinking they did well in the concessions they negotiated when in reality they are making concessions they needn't. (Ah this is a positive relationship - just shows, the best way forward is to remain resolutely clueless!).

[manshimajin]

The keywords that are being bandied about are:

• independent review
  
• standards of financial regulation
  
• supervision
  
• transparency
  
• international norms with regard to taxation
  
• fiscal arrangements
  
• risks
  
• deposit protection
  
• financial crisis management
  
• mitigation strategies
  
• resolution arrangements
  
• financial crime
  
• role in global economy
  
• long term business strategies
  

Skeddan what you say assumes that there are motivated people of sufficient intelligence to develop the Island's position in time for the 'independent review' being conducted by the UK Government.

 

Given that this situation lso relates to the Channel Islands would it be worthwhile seeing if we could pool resources to get an 'independent review' conducted by Crown Dependencies with a TOR to address issues of importance to the CDs? This will be different to the TOR set by the UK Government. Having an 'independent review' to place alongside the UK one might be better than sitting back and hoping for the best.