Pope To Condemn Tax Havens

[manshimajin]

It had to happen - not only will we be under review from the UK and the USA but now we are in line to be excommunicated and condemned to eternal damnation:

 

Pope

 

I guess that Signor Calvi will be there to greet us all...

[Twitch]

No word from the Holy Father on promotion of condom usage in Africa to prevent the spread of AIDS/HIV?

 

Thought not.

[bluemonday]

This from the head of a vast and extremely wealthy organisation that by it's refusal to sanction/allow contraception condemns millions of its followers to poverty, starvation and suffering.

 

 

Has as much moral authority as a wet tea towel.

 

eta apologies Twitch, you got there before me.

[thebees]

The who? Oh the pope, yeah right.......haven't they done away with these representatives of false gods yet? not to mention, what has his opinion got to do with anything? Pope shmope, I'm sure he is a very nice little old man but the entire rich religion thing makes me puke!

[hboy]

Who cares what this former Hitler Youth member and his morally bankrupt cardinals think.

 

Vatican City has about the dirtiest banking system in existence anywhere in the world - once again total Catholic hypocracy. But then again its the thing the Catholic Church does best.

[bluemonday]

As well as protecting paedophile priests.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I agree, it does seem ridiculous having the Pope lecturing about how sociall unjust things are when his Church has been responsible for so much injustice and wrongdoing and continues to interfere with the lives of people.

 

It does seem like everyone is having a go at the tax havens. Even so, I completely agree with the Pope and those who see tax havens as contributing to social injustice, and by that I mean that if we live in a society where the average person contributes by paying taxes then why allow others to not do so? Though is it not the case that in respect of the social injustice caused by competitive taxation, you would need to eliminate all competitive taxation to remove this form of social injustice?

[hboy]

I agree, it does seem ridiculous having the Pope lecturing about how sociall unjust things are when his Church has been responsible for so much injustice and wrongdoing and continues to interfere with the lives of people.

 

It does seem like everyone is having a go at the tax havens. Even so, I completely agree with the Pope and those who see tax havens as contributing to social injustice, and by that I mean that if we live in a society where the average person contributes by paying taxes then why allow others to not do so? Though is it not the case that in respect of the social injustice caused by competitive taxation, you would need to eliminate all competitive taxation to remove this form of social injustice?

 

So you'll be handing all your Government university grant money back then will you. Afterall your grant is paid for from money generated from the taxation of banks and companies that help people to avoid paying tax around the globe. This tax haven is underwriting your education.

 

Its funny who people only have a social concience when it suits them!

[Jack Meoff]

its the super large Multi nationals that suck Countries dry... they decide to move their money to London, Jersey IOM etc, so they dont have to pay tax in the products country at source. They are the ones that the Pope and his all might rightness should be looking at.

 

I think there is a famouse saying the he should listen to..

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. or Pricks who live in glass houses should not throw stones !!!!

 

Funking Knob

[La_Dolce_Vita]

So you'll be handing all your Government university grant money back then will you. Afterall your grant is paid for from money generated from the taxation of banks and companies that help people to avoid paying tax around the globe. This tax haven is underwriting your education.

 

Its funny who people only have a social concience when it suits them!

 

A rather bizarre argument. It is quite right that these banks and companies are paying taxes to fund my education and the education of all other Manx residents. It does however not seem right that the system allows people, particularly those who are rich and wealthy to avoid taxes. I would see such a system pulled apart as it can only serve to make the poorer pay more and create a situation where other nation's governments are pulling in less revenue from taxes than they would otherwise.

 

I did not have a choice in where I was born and have no choice in the manner in which I can achieve an education necessary to gaining employment. Because I am an Isle of Man resident I must take a grant. If I was a UK resident I would take a loan.

 

But how would you justify the tax haven system?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

its the super large Multi nationals that suck Countries dry... they decide to move their money to London, Jersey IOM etc, so they dont have to pay tax in the products country at source. They are the ones that the Pope and his all might rightness should be looking at.

 

But am I wrong in thinking that it is competitive tax systems and tax havens that allow these multinationals to do this? It is these companies fault but the governments of richer nations who have competitive systems allow this to happen don't they?

[Jack Meoff]

they would move the monies no matter the tax system, the only solution is to have low tax advantages in the product source country. Make most off Africa a Tax Haven, would be a great start.

 

Lets be honest, we are never going to change the way they work, they control the world, Anarchy is a lovley system to read about whilst having me pint down the pub, but the world is a much different place. I am not saying its right just being a realist.

[Stu Peters]

I would refer my learned friends to that great work of reference insofar as the Catholic Church and its finances are concerned:

 

Godfather III (the one where Michael gets religion)

[La_Dolce_Vita]

they would move the monies no matter the tax system, the only solution is to have low tax advantages in the product source country. Make most off Africa a Tax Haven, would be a great start.

 

Lets be honest, we are never going to change the way they work, they control the world, Anarchy is a lovley system to read about whilst having me pint down the pub, but the world is a much different place. I am not saying its right just being a realist.

 

But this is what I mean, people would only move their monies from one tax system to another as long as there are variations in the levels of taxation. If such a system CANNOT be eradicated or people or businesnesses CANNOT be prevented from avoiding tax then I would think it hypocritical to condemn those nations whose tax levels are the MOST competitive, such as the Isle of Man. The Island may be worse than all the others in its relationship to social injustice but it is not the only player.

Well it would be a significant improvement if Africa was a tax haven but obviously not viable.

 

But my argument has nothing to do with anarchism, in fact I am arguing from the very REALIST and conventional perspective that see taxes as being something that need to be paid and that are a social obligation. In our society taxes are seen to be responsibilities that people should meet by paying them, they are paid so that they government can spend on social goods and services. If one accepts that taxes are necessary and fair (which as an anarchist I do not) then all people and companies should participate in paying tax. There should not be any avoidance of this taxation as it is a responsibility to pay your share and certainly should not be a system where some should pay and others shouldn't.

If people think that the Isle of Man's tax status is not socially unjust then I would think that they must also think that their personal taxes should be avoided or not paid. It seems the same to me.

 

The world is a very different place from anything envisaged by anarchism, but this is what makes anarchism appealing because there are many aspects of the manner in which things operate that are absolutely terrible. If capitalism, for example, was everlasting and unchanging system it might give credit to an argument where someone says that change is pointless because things have been this way for ever, but they have not. It is difficult but definitely not impossible to wrest control away from those who should not have it.

[hboy]

It is quite right that these banks and companies are paying taxes to fund my education and the education of all other Manx residents. It does however not seem right that the system allows people, particularly those who are rich and wealthy to avoid taxes. I would see such a system pulled apart as it can only serve to make the poorer pay more and create a situation where other nation's governments are pulling in less revenue from taxes than they would otherwise.

 

I did not have a choice in where I was born and have no choice in the manner in which I can achieve an education necessary to gaining employment. Because I am an Isle of Man resident I must take a grant. If I was a UK resident I would take a loan.

 

But how would you justify the tax haven system?

 

Funny how all the beliefs you have can be put to the back of the mind when there is a few quid in it for you.

 

You don't HAVE to take a grant. Surely a principled man like you is well aware of how the government got the money to pay you that grant - from companies sucking reveues out of the tax systems of other countries which you yourself have stated you think is wrong.

 

The Island may be worse than all the others in its relationship to social injustice but it is not the only player.

 

In fact as an anarchist you've even stated that you believe the concept of taxing people is wrong, and yet you're happily taking taxpayers money to fund your education.

 

You're turning out to be a bigger hypocrite than most of the other hypocrites on here.