£ To The €

[Cambon]

Can Wail readers actually be brainwashed?

 

Doesn't that require a functional cortex and not just a collection of primitive cells programmed to go to outrage mode on sight of key words such as chavs, immigrants, benefits, unemployed, labour, primark and so on.

 

 

I am not a Daily Mail reader, but why is there such a bad feeling towards that paper? Other than the FT for price information and the Courier for classifieds, I rarely read any papers because they are all pretty much government rubbish mouthpieces. At least from what I see the Daily Mail seems to sometimes take a stand against the powers that be, and dare I say it, speak the truth?

 

John Wright is almost correct in stating that the problem goes back to Thatcher, and yes she was the one who started the ball rolling. However, the buck stops with Brown's statement "There will be no more boom and bust", because he never addressed the fundamental causes of the problem and now has us in this situation. Instead he has done exactly what Albert Tatlock said above.

 

John, yes the dollar is about to go down, the Euro might too due to the Santander and BNP problems, both of which would be good for sterling. That said, most of my portfolio is not in Sterling

[WTF]

A car from Germany which, excluding tax and subsidy costs €20,000 to produce woud have been £16,600. It is now £20,000. The car from UK is still costing £16 600 to produce so we buy more Brittish and export more.It used to sell for €20,000, it now sells for €16,600

 

How do our costs stay low when we import raw materials and energy John?

 

u

but surely these materials and energy are the same for EU competitors?? if only we had a workforce with a good work ethic???

[John Wright]

Why is it good for sterling to be at a high level, thats almost lets stick to the gold standard and ruin the economy, which we tried in the late 1920's

 

of course the eurozone get cheap raw materials but that does not alter their wages and property prices

 

At present we have an advantage on those at this level

[Cambon]

Why is it good for sterling to be at a high level, thats almost lets stick to the gold standard and ruin the economy, which we tried in the late 1920's

 

of course the eurozone get cheap raw materials but that does not alter their wages and property prices

 

At present we have an advantage on those at this level

 

It is not good for sterling to be at a high level, but it is also not good for sterling to be at a low level as it is now. It needs to be somewhere in between.

 

At present we have little advantage as for as much as it can be argued that our exports are currently cheap, that will change as our imports (including raw materials) are expensive.

 

What is needed, to save the UK, is an attitude change which can only be brought about by legislation to regulate borrowing / lending, and to encourage saving. This should have been done by Gordon Brown 10 years ago.

[P.K.]

I am not a Daily Mail reader, but why is there such a bad feeling towards that paper? Other than the FT for price information and the Courier for classifieds, I rarely read any papers because they are all pretty much government rubbish mouthpieces. At least from what I see the Daily Mail seems to sometimes take a stand against the powers that be, and dare I say it, speak the truth?

Do you know what the expression "street cred" means? Because at the moment you don't have any.

 

One huge advantage from joining the Euro at a 1:1 ratio would surely be the devaluation of the £ without the political bollocks that goes with it.

[Cambon]

Do you know what the expression "street cred" means? Because at the moment you don't have any.

 

One huge advantage from joining the Euro at a 1:1 ratio would surely be the devaluation of the £ without the political bollocks that goes with it.

 

Advantage? Please explain. I can see no short to medium term advantage at all. For that matter no real long term advantage.

[manshimajin]

Advantage? Please explain. I can see no short to medium term advantage at all. For that matter no real long term advantage.

Cambon I live in both zones. My perception of the advantages of the euro zone include:

• membership of the eurozone imposes some financial discipline on governments in relation to living broadly within their means - although this has weakened at present,
  
• transfer of funds between banks in different countries is still a weakness but hopefully a centralised clearing system will improve this,
  
• for export business within the eurozone it is very convenient not to have to worry about exchange rate risk,
  
• it is great to be able to travel across most of Europe without having to change currency and suffer from the buy/sell rates on offer at banks etc
  
• allied to this I can use the same banknotes and coins wherever I go in the eurozone - compared with the inflexible issue in the sterling zone of trying to use Scottish, Northern Irish, Manx, sterling in England,
  
• it is good to be able to compare prices without having to do mental arithmetic.
  

On the other hand sterling, through the BoE has the capacity to adjust interest rates to suit 'local' conditions whereas the ECB has to set rates for 15 countries (16 from 1 January). The benefits of this are debateable given the very wide range of economic performance of various parts of the UK and the Crown Dependencies. But it does mean that the BoE has some independence on interest rates ( though arguably they mismanaged the emergence of the housing and credit bubble).

[Cambon]

Cambon I live in both zones. My perception of the advantages of the euro zone include:

• membership of the eurozone imposes some financial discipline on governments in relation to living broadly within their means - although this has weakened at present,
  
• transfer of funds between banks in different countries is still a weakness but hopefully a centralised clearing system will improve this,
  
• for export business within the eurozone it is very convenient not to have to worry about exchange rate risk,
  
• it is great to be able to travel across most of Europe without having to change currency and suffer from the buy/sell rates on offer at banks etc
  
• allied to this I can use the same banknotes and coins wherever I go in the eurozone - compared with the inflexible issue in the sterling zone of trying to use Scottish, Northern Irish, Manx, sterling in England,
  
• it is good to be able to compare prices without having to do mental arithmetic.
  

On the other hand sterling, through the BoE has the capacity to adjust interest rates to suit 'local' conditions whereas the ECB has to set rates for 15 countries (16 from 1 January). The benefits of this are debateable given the very wide range of economic performance of various parts of the UK and the Crown Dependencies. But it does mean that the BoE has some independence on interest rates ( though arguably they mismanaged the emergence of the housing and credit bubble).

 

Thanks Manshimajin. I am aware of the potential positives of joining the Euro. However, P.K. stated that it would be an advantage to join at a rate of 1:1 rather than say £1:E1.5 as it would devalue the pound. His statement is total and utter bollocks. That is what I would like him to explain.

[manshimajin]

However, P.K. stated that it would be an advantage to join at a rate of 1:1 rather than say £1:E1.5 as it would devalue the pound. His statement is total and utter bollocks. That is what I would like him to explain.

Thanks. It would certainly lock in the rest of Europe at a much more expensive level than the UK. The possible advantage would be that UK costs and therefore exports and tourism would initially look quite competitive (possibly attract non-EU investment if the global economy improved) - but the inflationary effect of high import costs would be strong.

 

The commercial case for parity entry is possibly stronger than that for individuals who may feel a devaluation of their savings is being locked in. At a political level it is individuals who vote not companies...

 

I would think in any case that it may be some time before sterling complies with the Maastricht criteria however much one wanted to join.

[P.K.]

However, P.K. stated that it would be an advantage to join at a rate of 1:1 rather than say £1:E1.5 as it would devalue the pound. His statement is total and utter bollocks. That is what I would like him to explain.

ME talking bollocks???

 

Well YOU started it!!!!!

 

I am not a Daily Mail reader, but why is there such a bad feeling towards that paper? At least from what I see the Daily Mail seems to sometimes take a stand against the powers that be, and dare I say it, speak the truth?

[Sebrof]

I think the clue to the joke was in the jock

 

Its no more Brown or Blair but it dates back to Thatcher &Co and Reagonomics on the other side of the pond. De regulate, let anyone borrow anything to keep on stimulating the economy. They have now run out of space to maouevre. Whose watch it occurred ion is irrelevant. Problem is not that the country is bust and cannot borrow, borrowings are lowe, lower than when major left office, its that the population has borowed itself out as well so cannot afford to buy to re start the economy

 

You do seem to have swallowed Labour's lies, hook, line and sinker.

 

It is irrelevant what Thatcher did; if Brown didn't like it, he had the power to change it.

 

The simple fact is that banks started lending irresponsibly, and that caused the house price bubble, the collapse of which is the main reason Britain is in a mess right now. I concede that there are other reasons, but if Britain was not in a much worse state than the Euro-zone, the sterling-Euro exchange rate would not have collapsed.

 

As Chancellor, Brown was in charge of the banks, and recognised this by implementing a new supervisory arrangement. Typically, the new arrangement was so ill-conceived that instead of having one institution clearly in charge of supervision, there were three, and none of them did anything. And nor did their boss - Brown.

 

People had been warning of the effects of the bubble since 2003, if not earlier. In my view, Brown's failure to lift a finger to prevent the excesses which occurred was tantamount to criminal negligence.

 

Apparently Britain's debt is now similar to what it was at the end of WWII. It beggars belief, as one Nick Robinson might say. The consequences have certainly beggared everybody in Britain.

 

S

[Cambon]

However, P.K. stated that it would be an advantage to join at a rate of 1:1 rather than say £1:E1.5 as it would devalue the pound. His statement is total and utter bollocks. That is what I would like him to explain.

ME talking bollocks???

 

Well YOU started it!!!!!

 

I am not a Daily Mail reader, but why is there such a bad feeling towards that paper? At least from what I see the Daily Mail seems to sometimes take a stand against the powers that be, and dare I say it, speak the truth?

 

 

 

Absolutely!

[Cambon]

You do seem to have swallowed Labour's lies, hook, line and sinker.

 

It is irrelevant what Thatcher did; if Brown didn't like it, he had the power to change it.

 

The simple fact is that banks started lending irresponsibly, and that caused the house price bubble, the collapse of which is the main reason Britain is in a mess right now. I concede that there are other reasons, but if Britain was not in a much worse state than the Euro-zone, the sterling-Euro exchange rate would not have collapsed.

 

As Chancellor, Brown was in charge of the banks, and recognised this by implementing a new supervisory arrangement. Typically, the new arrangement was so ill-conceived that instead of having one institution clearly in charge of supervision, there were three, and none of them did anything. And nor did their boss - Brown.

 

People had been warning of the effects of the bubble since 2003, if not earlier. In my view, Brown's failure to lift a finger to prevent the excesses which occurred was tantamount to criminal negligence.

 

Apparently Britain's debt is now similar to what it was at the end of WWII. It beggars belief, as one Nick Robinson might say. The consequences have certainly beggared everybody in Britain.

 

S

 

Here, Here!!

 

To add to this Browns solution to the irresponsible borrow / lend scenario, is to borrow / lend more. Like that will work!!

[pongo]

Here, Here!!

 

FWIW, you mean hear, hear.

[Cambon]

Here, Here!!

 

FWIW, you mean hear, hear.

 

 

Actually, I was being ironic. What has happened has beggered everyone, not just in Britain but also here, wherever you are.