Terrorism Adviser To Met Is On Wanted List

[MilitantDogOwner]

The silence of the Muslim community when one of their own commits an act of terrorism speaks volumes.

 

Sorry but that's absolute bollocks. The majority of people, irrespective of their religion, do not condone terrorism. By your logic every Muslim is a terrorist, its the extremes in all parts of society that cause the problems. You really should stop reading The Daily Mail.

 

Unfortunately Mojomonkey the idea that the Muslim 'community' (?) should speak out against terrorism is very common. But I agree with you. It strikes me as being a very prejudiced view. There is no unitary muslim community to speak of anymore than a Christian one. And simply because you have fanatics who USE their religion to justify their actions why the hell such other people of the same religion openly condemn it?

 

LDV, take a drive around Birmingham, Bradford, Leeds, Manchester and tell me if you honestly believe there is no such thing as the Muslim community. They even have a Muslim Council. Surely as the spokes persons for the faith (if they are elected or not I dont know) they can encourage more to be done by the members of their faith.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV, take a drive around Birmingham, Bradford, Leeds, Manchester and tell me if you honestly believe there is no such thing as the Muslim community. They even have a Muslim Council. Surely as the spokes persons for the faith (if they are elected or not I dont know) they can encourage more to be done by the members of their faith.

 

I see a Pakistani community and there is a muslim community but we are not talking about a hive mind here.

The Muslim Council does not speak for all Muslims in any case.

[MilitantDogOwner]

LDV, take a drive around Birmingham, Bradford, Leeds, Manchester and tell me if you honestly believe there is no such thing as the Muslim community. They even have a Muslim Council. Surely as the spokes persons for the faith (if they are elected or not I dont know) they can encourage more to be done by the members of their faith.

 

I see a Pakistani community and there is a muslim community but we are not talking about a hive mind here.

The Muslim Council does not speak for all Muslims in any case.

 

So what is the mythical Muslim community that claims to be under attack all the time by the white man and his oppressive western society?

 

The Muslim community has a hierarchy and structure that would make the Chrisitan church looks like a boys club.

 

From the official Muslim Council of Britain website:

 

Aims and Objectives:

 

To promote cooperation, consensus and unity on Muslim affairs in the UK.

To encourage and strengthen all existing efforts being made for the benefit of the Muslim community.

To work for a more enlightened appreciation of Islam and Muslims in the wider society.

To establish a position for the Muslim community within British society that is fair and based on due rights.

To work for the eradication of disadvantages and forms of discrimination faced by Muslims.

To foster better community relations and work for the good of society as a whole.

 

I think if they are the authority when its comes to Muslim affairs.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

So what is the mythical Muslim community that claims to be under attack all the time by the white man and his oppressive western society?

 

The Muslim community has a hierarchy and structure that would make the Chrisitan church looks like a boys club.

 

From the official Muslim Council of Britain website:

 

Aims and Objectives:

 

To promote cooperation, consensus and unity on Muslim affairs in the UK.

To encourage and strengthen all existing efforts being made for the benefit of the Muslim community.

To work for a more enlightened appreciation of Islam and Muslims in the wider society.

To establish a position for the Muslim community within British society that is fair and based on due rights.

To work for the eradication of disadvantages and forms of discrimination faced by Muslims.

To foster better community relations and work for the good of society as a whole.

 

I think if they are the authority when its comes to Muslim affairs.

 

I'd say their aim to represent Muslims in Britain. But they cannot possibly speak for all Muslims, for it is a Council and is not all Muslims.

There is a Muslim community (though it is mostly Pakistani, but they aren't going to refer to it as being just Pakistani) but it is not one united group. It does refer to people of the same belief system but does not imply that these people all hold the same views of their religion or of other Muslims. But my issue with your perspective is that it seems as if you want the Muslim community to take responsibility or you feel that the Muslim community has some responsibility for these acts simply because a Muslim person committed them in the name of their religion.

If an evangelist Christian put a bomb in a school in the name their religion would we really expect other Christians to take responsibility to denounce such a thing? I would expect it, it has nothing to do with them. Such behaviour and such motivations are those of a tiny minority. Their terrorism already largely separates them from the conventional and majoritarian views of other Muslims. Why are further denunciations necessary??

 

The idea that you and many have that tends to portray Muslims in Britain as something a little like one homogenous group or even mind just creates this position where you placing responsibility for terrorism on all Muslims. No wonder they get f*cked off.

[Snaipyr]

The Muslim's Aims and Objectives seem quite sane compared to the Baptist's

 

http://www.abc-usa.org/missions/missiongiving/funding.aspx

[MilitantDogOwner]

So what is the mythical Muslim community that claims to be under attack all the time by the white man and his oppressive western society?

 

The Muslim community has a hierarchy and structure that would make the Chrisitan church looks like a boys club.

 

From the official Muslim Council of Britain website:

 

Aims and Objectives:

 

To promote cooperation, consensus and unity on Muslim affairs in the UK.

To encourage and strengthen all existing efforts being made for the benefit of the Muslim community.

To work for a more enlightened appreciation of Islam and Muslims in the wider society.

To establish a position for the Muslim community within British society that is fair and based on due rights.

To work for the eradication of disadvantages and forms of discrimination faced by Muslims.

To foster better community relations and work for the good of society as a whole.

 

I think if they are the authority when its comes to Muslim affairs.

 

I'd say their aim to represent Muslims in Britain. But they cannot possibly speak for all Muslims, for it is a Council and is not all Muslims.

There is a Muslim community (though it is mostly Pakistani, but they aren't going to refer to it as being just Pakistani) but it is not one united group. It does refer to people of the same belief system but does not imply that these people all hold the same views of their religion or of other Muslims. But my issue with your perspective is that it seems as if you want the Muslim community to take responsibility or you feel that the Muslim community has some responsibility for these acts simply because a Muslim person committed them in the name of their religion.

If an evangelist Christian put a bomb in a school in the name their religion would we really expect other Christians to take responsibility to denounce such a thing? I would expect it, it has nothing to do with them. Such behaviour and such motivations are those of a tiny minority. Their terrorism already largely separates them from the conventional and majoritarian views of other Muslims. Why are further denunciations necessary??

 

The idea that you and many have that tends to portray Muslims in Britain as something a little like one homogenous group or even mind just creates this position where you placing responsibility for terrorism on all Muslims. No wonder they get f*cked off.

 

If you read the content before you comment you might not look such a wally. The Christian has committed an act of terrorism in the name of his God and in the name of Christians. Is this something Christian faith and followers wish to be asscosiated with? No of course not. They would want to be disassociated with the radical and I'm sure they denounce his actions.

 

You obviously have never spoke to or dealt with a devout Muslim. They are a community with the community. Shariaa law in the eyes of many Muslims supercedes the law of the land in some cases. They have an infrastructure and a hierarchy.

 

Hate preachers have been allowed into the communities, some even welcomed, to preach hatred and sow the seads of radical and extremist doctrine. The recently convicted Glasgow Airport bomber is a prime example of indoctrination and corruption.

 

LDV you need to open your eyes and see the world outside your dorm room.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

If you read the content before you comment you might not look such a wally. The Christian has committed an act of terrorism in the name of his God and in the name of Christians. Is this something Christian faith and followers wish to be asscosiated with? No of course not. They would want to be disassociated with the radical and I'm sure they denounce his actions.

 

I am saying that I don't think they would. How would the actions of one evangelical Christian require Christians to openly denounce and disassociate themselves?

 

You obviously have never spoke to or dealt with a devout Muslim. They are a community with the community. Shariaa law in the eyes of many Muslims supercedes the law of the land in some cases. They have an infrastructure and a hierarchy.

 

I have spoken to quite a good number of devout Muslims, I used to work with them. I don't see the relevance of mentioning Sharia Law and hierarchy, etc. What is the point you are trying to make?

 

Hate preachers have been allowed into the communities, some even welcomed, to preach hatred and sow the seads of radical and extremist doctrine. The recently convicted Glasgow Airport bomber is a prime example of indoctrination and corruption.

 

And yes, it is an example of indoctrination and corruption. But hate preachers being allowed into the community or welcomed into it? They are already a part of that community, but rather their views are 'fundamentalist'. I don't see how this requires other Muslims to publicly denounce terrorism.

 

LDV you need to open your eyes and see the world outside your dorm room.

 

Dorm room? I am a bit past being in a dorm room.

[MilitantDogOwner]

You obviously have never spoke to or dealt with a devout Muslim. They are a community with the community. Shariaa law in the eyes of many Muslims supercedes the law of the land in some cases. They have an infrastructure and a hierarchy.

 

I have spoken to quite a good number of devout Muslims, I used to work with them. I don't see the relevance of mentioning Sharia Law and hierarchy, etc. What is the point you are trying to make?

 

I mentioned Sharia Law and the hierachy because you stated earlier that there is no such thing as a "Muslim Community". So they have a counicl and a set of their own laws. What else do they need before you'll concede they are a community. And that people within that community are either protecting/aid the terrorist element in our society or just not doing anything about it, which in my opinion is just as bad as actually helping them.

 

I understand that many people of Middle Eastern descent are upset about stop and search on themselves. Shame but unfortunatly necessary. "Its racial profiling" they cry. Really well lets stop and search that 60 yr old granny with her purple rinse hair do....or that white 30 yr old business man. OH wait the terror attacks commited on UK soil in recent times havent been committed by caucasions. Might sound racist but thats the facts. If you dont like what I have written prove me wrong.

[Freggyragh]

You obviously have never spoke to or dealt with a devout Muslim. They are a community with the community. Shariaa law in the eyes of many Muslims supercedes the law of the land in some cases. They have an infrastructure and a hierarchy.

 

I have spoken to quite a good number of devout Muslims, I used to work with them. I don't see the relevance of mentioning Sharia Law and hierarchy, etc. What is the point you are trying to make?

 

I mentioned Sharia Law and the hierachy because you stated earlier that there is no such thing as a "Muslim Community". So they have a counicl and a set of their own laws. What else do they need before you'll concede they are a community. And that people within that community are either protecting/aid the terrorist element in our society or just not doing anything about it, which in my opinion is just as bad as actually helping them.

 

I understand that many people of Middle Eastern descent are upset about stop and search on themselves. Shame but unfortunatly necessary. "Its racial profiling" they cry. Really well lets stop and search that 60 yr old granny with her purple rinse hair do....or that white 30 yr old business man. OH wait the terror attacks commited on UK soil in recent times havent been committed by caucasions. Might sound racist but thats the facts. If you dont like what I have written prove me wrong.

 

When you say 'caucasions' I presume you mean 'Caucasians - American English term for white people' and not 'Caucasians - people from the Caucasus Mountains (eg Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia). Richard Reid's mother is white and English, his father was from Jamaica. Neither England nor Jamaica are in the Middle East.

 

I have spent a lot of time in Muslim countries (Kashmir, Pakistan, Indonesia) and I found the majority of people there to be friendly and decent . I rarely met anyone in those countries with quite the same level of intolerance as you though.

[MilitantDogOwner]

You obviously have never spoke to or dealt with a devout Muslim. They are a community with the community. Shariaa law in the eyes of many Muslims supercedes the law of the land in some cases. They have an infrastructure and a hierarchy.

 

I have spoken to quite a good number of devout Muslims, I used to work with them. I don't see the relevance of mentioning Sharia Law and hierarchy, etc. What is the point you are trying to make?

 

I mentioned Sharia Law and the hierachy because you stated earlier that there is no such thing as a "Muslim Community". So they have a counicl and a set of their own laws. What else do they need before you'll concede they are a community. And that people within that community are either protecting/aid the terrorist element in our society or just not doing anything about it, which in my opinion is just as bad as actually helping them.

 

I understand that many people of Middle Eastern descent are upset about stop and search on themselves. Shame but unfortunatly necessary. "Its racial profiling" they cry. Really well lets stop and search that 60 yr old granny with her purple rinse hair do....or that white 30 yr old business man. OH wait the terror attacks commited on UK soil in recent times havent been committed by caucasions. Might sound racist but thats the facts. If you dont like what I have written prove me wrong.

 

When you say 'caucasions' I presume you mean 'Caucasians - American English term for white people' and not 'Caucasians - people from the Caucasus Mountains (eg Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia). Richard Reid's mother is white and English, his father was from Jamaica. Neither England nor Jamaica are in the Middle East.

 

I have spent a lot of time in Muslim countries (Kashmir, Pakistan, Indonesia) and I found the majority of people there to be friendly and decent . I rarely met anyone in those countries with quite the same level of intolerance as you though.

 

Yeah all the bombings in India, Pakistan and the surrounding regions were just made up for the tele. When was the last time a white uk national Christian, Buddist, Taoist, Jew or Mormon performed/attempted a terrorist on the uk mainland? 2001?

 

You use Richard Reid as a counter arguement. One man out of how many hardly a counter balance.

[Sebrof]

Yeah all the bombings in India, Pakistan and the surrounding regions were just made up for the tele. When was the last time a white uk national Christian, Buddist, Taoist, Jew or Mormon performed/attempted a terrorist on the uk mainland? 2001?

 

You seem to have a very selective memory. Earlier you mentioned Northern Ireland, which has been the origin of many more white terrorist murders in the British Isles than the Muslims have committed.

 

By the way, your grasp of English is so tenuous that I suspect you are not British, or even continental European, yourself. If you were British, you would surely have taken the trouble both to learn your own language, and to write it correctly.

 

People who are too idle or stupid to write properly are seldom worth listening to. If they can't grasp the rudiments of language, it is unlikely that they will have grasped the rudiments of anything else. But I am sure that you are neither idle, nor stupid. Probably an Israeli fundamentalist stirring things up.

 

S

[MilitantDogOwner]

Yeah all the bombings in India, Pakistan and the surrounding regions were just made up for the tele. When was the last time a white uk national Christian, Buddist, Taoist, Jew or Mormon performed/attempted a terrorist on the uk mainland? 2001?

 

You seem to have a very selective memory. Earlier you mentioned Northern Ireland, which has been the origin of many more white terrorist murders in the British Isles than the Muslims have committed.

 

By the way, your grasp of English is so tenuous that I suspect you are not British, or even continental European, yourself. If you were British, you would surely have taken the trouble both to learn your own language, and to write it correctly.

 

People who are too idle or stupid to write properly are seldom worth listening to. If they can't grasp the rudiments of language, it is unlikely that they will have grasped the rudiments of anything else. But I am sure that you are neither idle, nor stupid. Probably an Israeli fundamentalist stirring things up.

 

S

 

Yes I mentioned Ireland. Which was 8 years ago. Hasnt been a bombing by the IRA, PIRA or any other organistation since. The trouble in the Middle East will go on and on because unlike in NI we are facing a fundamentalist quasi-religious enemy who believes God will see them right in life or death.

 

I'm sorry I didn't know that the privilege to contribute on this forum was based on ones ability with the English language.

 

Yes your right I'm and Isreali fundementalist. Oh wait Israel is on our side you tool. Maybe if you had a better grasp on world politics you would be worth listening to.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I mentioned Sharia Law and the hierachy because you stated earlier that there is no such thing as a "Muslim Community". So they have a counicl and a set of their own laws. What else do they need before you'll concede they are a community. And that people within that community are either protecting/aid the terrorist element in our society or just not doing anything about it, which in my opinion is just as bad as actually helping them.

 

What do you mean by community? Schools and workplaces have their own rules and hierarchies but are they communities? Britain has its own laws and the people living in it have hierarchical systems but do the people of Britain constitute a community? It depends very much here on how broad you want to make the definition.

I can certainly understand what you mean if one Muslim who lives on the same street as a terrorist keeps quiet about it, or a few other similar examples. But what exactly do you mean by this idea of terrorists being accepted into the community, and what is this community? Does it mean all Muslims in Britain? It just sounds rather prejudiced, almost racist but it would be help to establish what you mean.

 

I understand that many people of Middle Eastern descent are upset about stop and search on themselves. Shame but unfortunatly necessary. "Its racial profiling" they cry. Really well lets stop and search that 60 yr old granny with her purple rinse hair do....or that white 30 yr old business man. OH wait the terror attacks commited on UK soil in recent times havent been committed by caucasions. Might sound racist but thats the facts. If you dont like what I have written prove me wrong.

 

It is racist and so they should be upset. Well yes, let's stop and search the granny and white business man. It may be less likely that they would be an Al Qaeda terrorist but what Britain cannot do is to create another suspect community or group like it did with the Irish, and I am not limited this to stop-and-search. The police treated the Irish community in Britain and those entering Britain very heavy-handedly and gave the Irish quite degrading treatment and this was simply because they were Irish. I don't want to see that happen to people of Middle Eastern descent. Besides, how would the police know who was of Middle Eastern descent? Will it be limited to the Middle East or might the police stop-and-search a Morroccan, an Ethiopian, or even a southern Indian person. However, you are quite right that the majority of terrorists acts in Britain are now committed by people of Middle Eastern descent, that is they are fundamentalist Muslims.

 

The trouble in the Middle East will go on and on because unlike in NI we are facing a fundamentalist quasi-religious enemy who believes God will see them right in life or death.

 

It need not go on and on it is not just a religious phenomena but Al Qaeda is very much about political and economic goals, however unrealisable they may be.

What needs to change is to for American and the UK to stop supporting Israel and get out of Iraq for starters but it won't be any panacea. Maybe though it would cool things down somewhat. The governments of the West have to radically alter their foreign and economic policy in the Middle East. It will be more likely, however, that the governments will have to be forced to change their policy because it is far easier to attack people on the streets than those who make policy and conduct big business deals.

I think though that when you have ruling elites from the (wonderful and benevolent) nations of the West who are prepared to do anything to secure oil and business in the Middle East, even if that means propping up or selling arms to repressive governments, and you get people who are oppressed but also ignorant in terms of education you are going to get people who are easily indoctrinated and easily led.

 

Yes your right I'm and Isreali fundementalist. Oh wait Israel is on our side you tool.

 

Don't understand that. You mean the nation is protected by the West?