Bloated Government

[Dunroamin]

Sorry just to clarify - does this 11000 figure include ALL schools, health services, General practitioner doctors, dentists, Commissioners staff, Parish Staff ie all those not working in the private sector?

 

I am surprised that it does as I thought that the percentage would have been higher. It is, however, interesting (worrying?) that only some 29,000 people actually produce the revenue necessary to keep the Island going, pay the pensioners and the salaries of the 11,000 - all income paid to the latter being merely recirculated or even lost when sent off Island!

 

God bless the 29,000 people and, even more importantly, the entrepreneurs who employ them and bring in the business for them to work on!

[The Old Git]

your clearly not manx

 

I have the stamp in my passport so I guess I'm as Manx as anyone here

 

we all know or are related to (many) people in the government (impossible not to). and we hear them talk. they talk about flexi time and things not being their job and health and safety and time off for stress and pay rises. i work in retail - high stress (especially at xmas). if I suggested I needed time off for stress i'd have my balls cut off.

 

I work in retail, when I'm finished I go home and forget about it.

 

I do have a relative, my wife, who is on the government payroll. She's meant to work 9 - 5, but seems to average between 50 and 60 hours actually at work, then brings a load of work home with her. I've never seen anyone so stressed out and I'm genuinely very worried for her health.

 

But of course, according to the experts in this thread, people of the government payroll are useless slackers who contribute nothing so I guess I must be imagining it all then

[The Old Git]

Sorry just to clarify - does this 11000 figure include ALL schools, health services, General practitioner doctors, dentists, Commissioners staff, Parish Staff

 

Don't know about local government, (I doubt it) but it will also include the police and fire services.

 

I think any small community such as ours will have a higher percentage of government workers simply because we have to provide our own schools, hospitals, police, etc. and we don't have the economies of scale

[Dunroamin]

your clearly not manx

 

I have the stamp in my passport so I guess I'm as Manx as anyone here

 

we all know or are related to (many) people in the government (impossible not to). and we hear them talk. they talk about flexi time and things not being their job and health and safety and time off for stress and pay rises. i work in retail - high stress (especially at xmas). if I suggested I needed time off for stress i'd have my balls cut off.

 

I work in retail, when I'm finished I go home and forget about it.

 

I do have a relative, my wife, who is on the government payroll. She's meant to work 9 - 5, but seems to average between 50 and 60 hours actually at work, then brings a load of work home with her. I've never seen anyone so stressed out and I'm genuinely very worried for her health.

 

But of course, according to the experts in this thread, people of the government payroll are useless slackers who contribute nothing so I guess I must be imagining it all then

 

I would back that up being not a government employee and not particularly about your wife as I have no idea who she is!!

 

However, I have had dealings with various departments recentl and they, to a person, have been helpful and co-operative. I do know of several "high flying" civil servants and some who are not so high up the flag pole who

are completely lazy, swing the lead and abuse the system! There also whole swathes of Government which can be done away with such as the local councils and commissioners if anyone was prepared to be dynamic and not think politically.

[The Old Git]

However, I have had dealings with various departments recentl and they, to a person, have been helpful and co-operative.

 

In the past few years I've found the income tax people amazing pleasant and helpful to deal with, it's almost been a pleasure.

 

However, I suspect that some people assume everyone on the government payroll works in government office or thereabouts and completely overlooks the amount of people who work hard in our hospitals, schools, police and other services

[Mr Shoe]

your clearly not manx

But of course, according to the experts in this thread, people of the government payroll are useless slackers who contribute nothing so I guess I must be imagining it all then

let me say again: "and for every dhss worker whose had a hellish day at the FIS counter theres two pencil pushers who did nothing"

 

if your wife is in the first category you have my sympathy. but my grigg is against the second category. are you saying they don't exist?

 

 

but more importantly, on a scale of 1 to 10, what are the chances of your wife losing her job in the next 6 months. of having a paycut? of going to a 4 day week? i bet my chances are higher

[The Old Git]

let me say again: "and for every dhss worker whose had a hellish day at the FIS counter theres two pencil pushers who did nothing"

 

if your wife is in the first category you have my sympathy. but my grigg is against the second category. are you saying they don't exist?

 

I don't think it's anywhere near two thirds, which also seems to contradict your earlier "firstly, if a third of the government workers are useless"

 

but more importantly, on a scale of 1 to 10, what are the chances of your wife losing her job in the next 6 months. of having a paycut? of going to a 4 day week? i bet my chances are higher

 

I don't doubt a government job is more secure.

 

I bet both our chances are higher, after all we both work in retail and yet are here posting on the forums.

[Jimcalagon]

let me say again: "and for every dhss worker whose had a hellish day at the FIS counter theres two pencil pushers who did nothing"

 

Yeah you said it before. Doesn't make it true though.

 

Any sources you'd care to share with us - other than ones of the 'everyone knows...' or 'a mate said...' calibre?

[Mr Shoe]

I bet both our chances are higher, after all we both work in retail and yet are here posting on the forums.

 

strangely i don't work 7 days a week

of course, i could be applying for a government job instead of posting here

 

I don't doubt a government job is more secure.

 

thats the point - its all just sour grapes. in all industries theres hardworkers and slackers. but worrying about your mortgage payments while knowing that theres people in government doing little/no work who cant be sacked just causes resentment

 

"it's not fair"

 

there, I said it

[Mr Shoe]

Any sources you'd care to share with us - other than ones of the 'everyone knows...' or 'a mate said...' calibre?

jealousy aside, this is not actually an attack on government workers (slack or otherwise). this thread is about the bloat in the government

 

so, purely hypothetically. say you wanted to move your desk, the little filing cabinet beneath it and the PC on top of it 20 foot to the left because of the draft from the window giving you backache

 

what is the solution and how many people would it take?

 

in the private world? 2. just move the freakin desk and quit moaning

actually 1. leave the desk and get some gaffer tape

 

could someone from government tell us the government way? include every person in the loop

 

I'm gonna guess 10+

[The Old Git]

thats the point - its all just sour grapes.

 

From you maybe, but not from me. I never expected life to be fair

[Guest MrFunk]

To rant or not to rant, that is the question?

 

Going from my first hand experience of working for more than a few years within the Manx Civil Service I'd say that at least half the staff have very little/nothing to do most of the time. In the departments I worked you'd find 4 or 5 people working their nuts off whilst the rest pretended to work, chatting away, drinking coffee, surfing the net for their next holiday and just generally doing anything other than work. My personal favourite was the staff that would come in early to build flexi time and then sit there having their breakfast! Sure they'd answer the odd phone call but that was about it. Those that work hard were always piled high whenever something new came along, those that didn't would eventually be promoted to a nice newly invented EO post where they'd look after a few staff (when I say look after I mean chip in a bit when the AO that actually did the work was on holiday/flexi leave), it's always best to keep your workers where the work was.

 

I could name at least 40 people (full name with position) right now who are currently being paid between £20k and £50K a year who do next to no work. Counting the days as they put it. If the time was took to look at their browsing/personal e-mail habbits I'm sure would show that they do less than 2 hours of work a day. Then again they could be YOUR (and my) friends and family so best not to heh? As people I met some good friends within the CS, genuinely nice people who I'd have a drink with any day, still do with some even though it's been a while now. Would I employ them though? Except the rare few not a bloody chance in hell! You know a lot of the staff are people who have struggled with the stress of having a £15k bank job right? Now their GCSE C in English suddenly worth £24k.

 

I left because I couldn't stand the lack of work, the feeling of not actually earning my money. A fair days pay for a fair days work was how I was brought up. It's that what makes the civil service difficult, filling your day with trying to look busy and not passing out with the boredom. After a couple of years you start to resent when you are actually asked to do something! I can't talk about the other parts of the public sector cos I've never worked there but as far as the CS goes over here it is hugely over staffed, over paid and over perked. They really do live in their own little bubble and the worst of it is it will never change. Can't reward those that work hard, can't sack those that do nothing waiting for their nice pension.

 

I've worked private/public sector and whilst there are slackers looking for an easy ride everywhere you work the ratio in the CS is far higher than anywhere else I've ever been.

[%age]

An interesting post.

 

My very pessimistic view would be - what happens if/when the Isle of Man goes bust? It could well happen when you consider how we make the majority of our national income.

 

...and that huge, huge pension bill.

 

I would still love to know how many people are paid over £100,000pa from the public purse. For a population of 80,000 it is an impossibly high figure.

[Guest MrFunk]

At the top end I don't really think that the CS do over pay. In fact for some specialist jobs I'd say they under pay, certainly to get the best staff.

 

The real problem is with the bloat of staff numbers lower down the ladder. HUGE numbers of AO and EO grade staff earning between £20k and £33k a year for what is in every other office very basic admin work or at most doing the appraisals for 3-4 staff. Like I said most of these have very little to do as far as I'm concerned. The entry requirements for those sorts of salaries are in insult to every private sector company IMHO.

[P.K.]

They run the MEA and the Water Authority. As well as the Post Office.

Into the ground perhaps?

 

The number of times folks on here bleat about the size of the public sector. IMHO the problem is twofold:

 

Firstly in my experience organisations that evolve rather than growing to a plan are the most inefficient, disorganised and demoralising places you could imagine.

 

Secondly as far as I'm aware the task of running IOM PLC has never actually been properly sized up using modern methodologies.

 

The public sector has always been an easy target but frankly some of it is richly deserved. I've dealt with civil servants with budgets of millions that you wouldn't trust with doling out pocket money. The private sector runs rings around them which is why just about every UK public sector IT project has been an out and out disaster - it's no accident believe me.